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This Week in Anime - Dr. Stone Breaks the Mold of Shonen Jump Adventure




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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:57 pm Reply with quote
Kinda wish it broke the mold more and didn't have a villain, surviving in the world should be dangerous enough and they already have the quest to un stone everyone. A villain is just superfluous and take away from the more interesting/unique aspect.
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Greed1914
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:09 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
Kinda wish it broke the mold more and didn't have a villain, surviving in the world should be dangerous enough and they already have the quest to un stone everyone. A villain is just superfluous and take away from the more interesting/unique aspect.


Yeah, I have to agree with this. I wasn't convinced that there wouldn't be one since shonen stories thrive on interesting villains, but I came out of the first episode feeling like it didn't need one. Senku mentions that most of his time while he was alone was spent just doing enough to survive. Even adding Taiju, it took a year to make something to reverse the stone process.

I did appreciate that it showed Senku's arrogance getting the better of him early on with initial failure with the alcohol. It's easy to take for granted that we would know how to do something humans have been doing for a long, long time, but it's rare to be good at something the very first time.
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Saffire
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:52 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
Kinda wish it broke the mold more and didn't have a villain, surviving in the world should be dangerous enough and they already have the quest to un stone everyone. A villain is just superfluous and take away from the more interesting/unique aspect.
The conflict motivates different aspects of science to be on display and discussions on the role of science in human civilization. I don't think it's just going through the motions of the Jump formula.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:41 pm Reply with quote
Saffire wrote:
meiam wrote:
Kinda wish it broke the mold more and didn't have a villain, surviving in the world should be dangerous enough and they already have the quest to un stone everyone. A villain is just superfluous and take away from the more interesting/unique aspect.
The conflict motivates different aspects of science to be on display and discussions on the role of science in human civilization. I don't think it's just going through the motions of the Jump formula.


A villain is definitely not needed for that, especially not when the villain main motivation has nothing to do with science.
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Grimvice



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:06 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
Saffire wrote:
meiam wrote:
Kinda wish it broke the mold more and didn't have a villain, surviving in the world should be dangerous enough and they already have the quest to un stone everyone. A villain is just superfluous and take away from the more interesting/unique aspect.
The conflict motivates different aspects of science to be on display and discussions on the role of science in human civilization. I don't think it's just going through the motions of the Jump formula.


A villain is definitely not needed for that, especially not when the villain main motivation has nothing to do with science.


It kinda does actually. It was a little glossed over in the anime, but a part of Tsukasa's antagonism against Senku is that he knows that Senku is smart enough to reinvent a lot of modern civilization. But in reinventing modern civilization, a lot of the concepts that Tsukasa stands against will most likely come with it. Advanced culture, complicated economy, conflict over resources because there's more people, etc. etc. Because of that, Tsukasa is in many ways "anti-science", which makes him the philosophical nemesis of Senku.

Even physically this rings true. Tsukasa is the strongest primate high-schooler and can hunt, forage, and live off the land with ease. However, not everyone can do that, but he believes that the world that's convenient for him will be better for everyone.

Senku is the exact opposite. He is not someone who can survive on own completely, and even admits that he couldn't get to where he was without his friend. Being a guy of science, he seeks a solution that will benefit everyone, not just those who can survive within the system that Tsukasa proposes.
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cursed nowai



Joined: 23 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:02 pm Reply with quote
The way I see it, characters are manifestation of some of the humanity's traits, that have been nourished for hundreds of years, i.e. characters aren't really people, but rather an avatar of some of the humanity's aspects. That's why they all can do wild shit, like killing a [expletive] lion with bare hands, or being RIDICULOUSLY smart, or so fit, that you don't tire.
So Senku is a rational scientific part of humanity, which can sometimes lead to a path of shady morals, he allies with people out of rational principles, not following the emotion
Taiju is the working class normal people, they follow the lead of science having a common goal. Like a representation of humanity's working class, Taiju heart not only within the humanity but the concept of "traditional values", which lead us to...
Yuzuriha. She, being a representation of family, religion and pure emotion, leads them both to a literal statue of a god, providing them both with guidance of a godly miracle, revered by common people, but disregarded by a rational part of humanity for the sake of survival and supremacy.

It's difficult to say, what character of Tsukasa is. So far it looks like some sort of a weird anarcho-fascist state, so I have no idea where this is going. Looks like a caricature view of general public scaremongering about anarchism and people trying to overthrow unjust hierarchies, which has often been a staple of capitalist art, which benefits from the existence of the said hierarchies.

Or at least I hope this is what this is about, and not just 'what if generic shounen, but in the post-society future'.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:52 pm Reply with quote
I just like how Senku is a natural blond whose hair turns green over several months' time (which is why only the older tips are green). I demand a scientific explanation for this!
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:02 pm Reply with quote
Grimvice wrote:
meiam wrote:
Saffire wrote:
meiam wrote:
Kinda wish it broke the mold more and didn't have a villain, surviving in the world should be dangerous enough and they already have the quest to un stone everyone. A villain is just superfluous and take away from the more interesting/unique aspect.
The conflict motivates different aspects of science to be on display and discussions on the role of science in human civilization. I don't think it's just going through the motions of the Jump formula.


A villain is definitely not needed for that, especially not when the villain main motivation has nothing to do with science.


It kinda does actually. It was a little glossed over in the anime, but a part of Tsukasa's antagonism against Senku is that he knows that Senku is smart enough to reinvent a lot of modern civilization. But in reinventing modern civilization, a lot of the concepts that Tsukasa stands against will most likely come with it. Advanced culture, complicated economy, conflict over resources because there's more people, etc. etc. Because of that, Tsukasa is in many ways "anti-science", which makes him the philosophical nemesis of Senku.


Most concept that could be said Tsukasa oppose far predate science. For example, the concept of ownership, even animal have that. Reinventing science will not change that.
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Hiroki not Takuya



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:11 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
Kinda wish it broke the mold more and didn't have a villain... A villain is just superfluous and take away from the more interesting/unique aspect.
Maybe you would find a show like Dual Survival interesting, but SJ didn't make boatloads of money by providing such for the mass market. Travelogues and documentaries aren't near as interesting as actual stories which have relatable characters who have some level of conflict. Thus, villains are necessary for a generally interesting story and that truth goes back to before Ancient Greece...
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kotomikun



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:10 am Reply with quote
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
Travelogues and documentaries aren't near as interesting as actual stories which have relatable characters who have some level of conflict. Thus, villains are necessary for a generally interesting story and that truth goes back to before Ancient Greece...

Now I'm having flashbacks to high-school English class...

Conflict is usually necessary in a good story, yes, but there are several types. Having a regular old villain/opponent would be "man vs. man," but just off the top of my head there's also "man vs. nature" (an obvious candidate for a setting like this), "man vs. society," (insert dystopia here) and "man vs. himself" (Evangelion, for one). Dated-sounding gendered language aside, those are all still valid options, and a story can use more than one, though evil bad guys are the most common.

How much Dr. Stone is going to lean on Terrible Tarzan for conflict is hard to say from this point; some other stuff we've seen falls under "nature," the lion attack and (probably) whatever turned everyone to stone being the most obvious. Humanoid villains certainly aren't necessary for something to be good or popular, though; main conflict of Your Name is "guy and girl vs. destructive cosmic forces of doom," with the closest thing to a bad guy being Mitsuha's stubborn dad. A Place Further Than The Universe is, for the most part, a "travelogue" with minor amounts of nature/society/self conflict. Villains aren't the only type of interpersonal conflict, either. I don't think Dr. Stone is any worse for having a villain, but it's not the only way to do things.
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johan.eriksson.9003



Joined: 27 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:09 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
Grimvice wrote:
meiam wrote:
Saffire wrote:
meiam wrote:
Kinda wish it broke the mold more and didn't have a villain, surviving in the world should be dangerous enough and they already have the quest to un stone everyone. A villain is just superfluous and take away from the more interesting/unique aspect.
The conflict motivates different aspects of science to be on display and discussions on the role of science in human civilization. I don't think it's just going through the motions of the Jump formula.


A villain is definitely not needed for that, especially not when the villain main motivation has nothing to do with science.


It kinda does actually. It was a little glossed over in the anime, but a part of Tsukasa's antagonism against Senku is that he knows that Senku is smart enough to reinvent a lot of modern civilization. But in reinventing modern civilization, a lot of the concepts that Tsukasa stands against will most likely come with it. Advanced culture, complicated economy, conflict over resources because there's more people, etc. etc. Because of that, Tsukasa is in many ways "anti-science", which makes him the philosophical nemesis of Senku.


Most concept that could be said Tsukasa oppose far predate science. For example, the concept of ownership, even animal have that. Reinventing science will not change that.


1. That strongly depends on what you mean by "science". Like, I'm pretty sure the ability to reason and test things scientifically predate the abundance of resources that is necessary for "ownership" to be a thing. Which brings us to...

2. Reinventing scientific advances would absolutely change things because advancement brings abundance, which is necessary for the kind of society that Tsukasa hates to exist.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:27 pm Reply with quote
johan.eriksson.9003 wrote:


1. That strongly depends on what you mean by "science". Like, I'm pretty sure the ability to reason and test things scientifically predate the abundance of resources that is necessary for "ownership" to be a thing. Which brings us to...

2. Reinventing scientific advances would absolutely change things because advancement brings abundance, which is necessary for the kind of society that Tsukasa hates to exist.


You don't need an abundance of resource for ownership to come into existence, if anything abundance weaken ownership (if there's more than enough of something, what's the point of keeping track of who own what). Two persons in a room with a rock, one of them says "the rock is mine", there you go, ownership without abundance and science.

The example Tsukasa gave was over an old dude on a beach, the beach wasn't made by science and the old dude didn't impose his ownership trough any scientifically advanced means.
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johan.eriksson.9003



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:12 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:

You don't need an abundance of resource for ownership to come into existence, if anything abundance weaken ownership (if there's more than enough of something, what's the point of keeping track of who own what). Two persons in a room with a rock, one of them says "the rock is mine", there you go, ownership without abundance and science.

The example Tsukasa gave was over an old dude on a beach, the beach wasn't made by science and the old dude didn't impose his ownership trough any scientifically advanced means.


Right, because it's not like we already have a massive abundance of resources and yet the 1% are still a thing.

Really? Was this dude superhuman enough to actually take the beach and enforce his will on others without the weapons and/or connections that science affords?
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Agent355



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:52 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
Travelogues and documentaries aren't near as interesting as actual stories which have relatable characters who have some level of conflict. Thus, villains are necessary for a generally interesting story and that truth goes back to before Ancient Greece...

Now I'm having flashbacks to high-school English class...

Conflict is usually necessary in a good story, yes, but there are several types. Having a regular old villain/opponent would be "man vs. man," but just off the top of my head there's also "man vs. nature" (an obvious candidate for a setting like this), "man vs. society," (insert dystopia here) and "man vs. himself" (Evangelion, for one). Dated-sounding gendered language aside, those are all still valid options, and a story can use more than one, though evil bad guys are the most common.

How much Dr. Stone is going to lean on Terrible Tarzan for conflict is hard to say from this point; some other stuff we've seen falls under "nature," the lion attack and (probably) whatever turned everyone to stone being the most obvious. Humanoid villains certainly aren't necessary for something to be good or popular, though; main conflict of Your Name is "guy and girl vs. destructive cosmic forces of doom," with the closest thing to a bad guy being Mitsuha's stubborn dad. A Place Further Than The Universe is, for the most part, a "travelogue" with minor amounts of nature/society/self conflict. Villains aren't the only type of interpersonal conflict, either. I don't think Dr. Stone is any worse for having a villain, but it's not the only way to do things.

I’m knee deep in the manga, and I agree; but that might be because I don’t think Tsukasa is a very good villain. His reasoning might be complex but his methods are so overly broad (as the TWIA columnists point out) that it comes right back around to being simplistic. But for better or worse, a plot and characterization in Dr Stone leans towards over the top and broad. That’s not a bad thing! The story has fun playing with Shonen Jump tropes while making science fun and accessible for the audience. I genuinely like most of the characters. Just don’t expect hyper realism, and roll with it! Laughing
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Yuvelir



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:31 am Reply with quote
*ctrl+f cars*
I'm disappointed.
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