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INTEREST: Victims Speak Out After Canada's Anime Revolution Con Allows Serial Harasser, Convicted Se


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Aresef



Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 497
Location: MD
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:03 pm Reply with quote
Whether it's a guest or a staffer or a regular old fan, I'm glad that these people are getting exposed. This behavior has no place at an anime convention, no matter who the bad actors are.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1697
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:10 pm Reply with quote
While I can see how the AniRevo president got caught on the back foot (if Kleiman has a letter from his therapist stating he's not a danger in public, does that make you discriminatory for denying him access?), I feel like Ngo made the wrong call here. Kleiman clearly has a pattern of bad behavior, and I don't know that I would trust a girlfriend with keeping him in line. Not to mention how hectic cons can get, I don't even think asking security to keep tabs on him is really all that viable. For the safety of the other con-goers, Kleiman shouldn't have been allowed in, especially since this had already technically been addressed with his previous ban.
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Ralph Snackshi



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:26 pm Reply with quote
Well, this was a sickening read. Props to those on the ANN Interest Team, I do NOT envy your positions. I don't know if they'll ever see this but my heart goes out to those who were victimized by these slimeballs. I hope there'll be a resolution to all this, preferably sooner rather than later.

Also I'm not a mental health expert by any stretch, but fudge anyone who uses Asperger's as a scapegoat for assault/harassment.
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risingtsun



Joined: 21 Aug 2019
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:27 pm Reply with quote
The victim stories here are terrible, so it's good that Anime Revolution finally decided to ban Kleiman in the end. One issue with Anime Revolution's PR team is that on Facebook they mentioned that Kleiman lives with autism which came across as if they were justifying his inappropriate sexual behaviour. However, many local anime clubs here in Vancouver already host club members with autism who aren't sexual predators.

I think it would have been great for Anime News Network to have reached out to SFU / SFU Anime as well, as Kleiman has been banned from SFU Anime's annual Summer Festival, as well as all SFU campuses for over a year now.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 4391
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:56 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Kleiman has Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) and he said Kleiman referenced his diagnosis to Ngo as the reason behind his social difficulties.


Okay. As someone with aspergers, I find this EXTREMELY insulting. The following line made it more clear (that was his excuse for being argumentative - that's actually valid) but autism doesn't make us harass people, and it doesn't make us pedophiles. I ^#$%#@% hate when people use autism as an excuse for them being awful people.
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nightmaregenie



Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 166
Location: Palmy, NZ - student central
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:05 pm Reply with quote
NO medical/genetic condition should be used to excuse harmful behaviour/criminal offence against other people, period. Especially if the condition has already been diagnosed. The onus is on the adult individual and their family to seek the appropriate help to assist them in coping with everyday situations and people. People who downplay a person's negative behaviour because "they've been suffering from X" makes me sick, particularly in this case where there was a clear history of alarming behaviour.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:30 pm Reply with quote
Unfortunately conventions are almost perfect environments for pieces of shit like this to ply their trade. You have a lot of unaccompanied minors present, many of whom are probably not the most socially-confident people yet, and hey here's an adult showering them with positive attention. It was certainly You-Know-Who's MO.
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Crispy45



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:31 pm Reply with quote
nightmaregenie wrote:
NO medical/genetic condition should be used to excuse harmful behaviour/criminal offence against other people, period. Especially if the condition has already been diagnosed. The onus is on the adult individual and their family to seek the appropriate help to assist them in coping with everyday situations and people. People who downplay a person's negative behaviour because "they've been suffering from X" makes me sick, particularly in this case where there was a clear history of alarming behaviour.


There's many psychologists and legal experts that say otherwise. People on the spectrum are more likely to cross paths with the law than those who aren't, both as victims and as perpetrators. And plenty of courts have shown leniency on people on the autism spectrum when it comes to certain crimes because the accused might not have known what was acceptable or not. People with stunted emotional and social growth not understanding social cues can end up in trouble when it comes to issues like inappropriate behavior and consent. Nobody is saying "all autistic people are rapists" or "he's autistic so it's okay for him to break the law" but comments like "not all X!" aren't very helpful either. That being said, this guy is a very extreme case. It's not some guy awkwardly not knowing 'no means no' and getting a sexual harassment or assault charge for it. This guy is clearly deranged and has had a history of assaults and convictions especially if those letters are anything to go by. Clearly a psychopath.
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HyugaHinata
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:33 pm Reply with quote
Lock him up. He shouldn't be allowed into any anime conventions. Or any convention, for that matter.
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Dessa



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 4427
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:38 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
While I can see how the AniRevo president got caught on the back foot (if Kleiman has a letter from his therapist stating he's not a danger in public, does that make you discriminatory for denying him access?), I feel like Ngo made the wrong call here


I agree. I don't know how their convention is structured, but I know that at Sakura-Con, the con chair can't just go and override a ban. It's something that the entire board would have to look at, before the convention. If someone with a ban showed up at the con, it would be a "Sorry, you were informed you are not allowed here. If you'd like to seek a reversal of your ban, here are the steps, but nothing can be done until after the event."
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SailorTralfamadore



Joined: 25 Feb 2014
Posts: 466
Location: Keep Austin Weeb
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:55 pm Reply with quote
Crispy45 wrote:
nightmaregenie wrote:
NO medical/genetic condition should be used to excuse harmful behaviour/criminal offence against other people, period. Especially if the condition has already been diagnosed. The onus is on the adult individual and their family to seek the appropriate help to assist them in coping with everyday situations and people. People who downplay a person's negative behaviour because "they've been suffering from X" makes me sick, particularly in this case where there was a clear history of alarming behaviour.


There's many psychologists and legal experts that say otherwise. People on the spectrum are more likely to cross paths with the law than those who aren't, both as victims and as perpetrators. And plenty of courts have shown leniency on people on the autism spectrum when it comes to certain crimes because the accused might not have known what was acceptable or not.


Citation needed, please.

Quote:
People with stunted emotional and social growth not understanding social cues can end up in trouble when it comes to issues like inappropriate behavior and consent.


Autism isn't considered "stunted emotional and social growth" by any psychiatrist, it's a different way the brain is wired. (One that makes autistic people better at some things than neurotypical people, in fact!) One of the key symptoms is a difficulty with reading non-verbal cues -- for example, noticing that someone is bored with what you're saying by them looking around the room instead of at you, or someone is threatened by you by making their body language smaller and looking for an escape route -- but many autistic people can still learn how to pick up on those things, just at a much slower rate than most people. And the key word there is non-verbal. This guy's victims had repeatedly told him verbally and directly in various ways to stop. Any autistic person could tell you that they understand those, loud and clear -- which is why typical interaction with an autistic person who doesn't understand non-verbal cues means that they apologize profusely once their behavior is made aware to them verbally.

This guy may be autistic, but the reason he's treating these women this way isn't because of his autism, it's because he is an entitled creep. Heck, reading it you can even see where he was raised that way, with how his mom threatens to sue anyone who doesn't want to spend time around her son. Part of the reason that consent programs emphasize "enthusiastic verbal consent" is to make it as unambiguous to as many people as possible. Enthusiastic verbal consent is something that autistic people have no more difficulty comprehending than anyone else.

Please don't repeat harmful stereotypes and urban myths about an already marginalized and stigmatized group of people. If you don't know what you're talking about, there are plenty of people here who do, so you don't need to say anything about this topic.
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ANN Forum Mod / Admin



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:47 pm Reply with quote
Reminder that we absolutely do not allow victim-blaming here. If your post is gone (you know who you are) that's why. If you disagree with that decision, please head to the Feedback forum.

You can review our forum rules here: animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3083885
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Ggultra2764
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:16 pm Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
Quote:
Kleiman has Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) and he said Kleiman referenced his diagnosis to Ngo as the reason behind his social difficulties.


Okay. As someone with aspergers, I find this EXTREMELY insulting. The following line made it more clear (that was his excuse for being argumentative - that's actually valid) but autism doesn't make us harass people, and it doesn't make us pedophiles. I ^#$%#@% hate when people use autism as an excuse for them being awful people.


Same boat. When I read that detail, it made me rage inside considering I am also on the spectrum. I'll concede I had behavior problems growing up since I couldn't properly comprehend social behavior and have learned overtime what is and isn't appropriate in public social situations. But that doesn't justify all the harassment this sleazebag caused onto others. Evil or Very Mad
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curtisd88



Joined: 01 Jan 2015
Posts: 125
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:25 pm Reply with quote
I hate it when people try to pull the "autism" card as a way to get out of punishment for sexual behavior. One of my best friends has autism and so does my younger brother. They CLEARLY know better than to do these things so what makes him any different? This is what happens when sexual predators like these are never taken seriously the first time, they get worse because the powers that be are too lenient.

Lock these people up like they should be. Obviously the proof and the numerous offenses is there. This is the only way they will ever change.
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XerneasYveltal



Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 554
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:16 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Kleiman has Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) and he said Kleiman referenced his diagnosis to Ngo as the reason behind his social difficulties.


This is going to give away the potential impression that convention attendants diagnosed with autism and Asperger syndrome have similar behaviors as the suspect, thus giving them a bad image.
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