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INTEREST: Tsuredure Children Creator Draws Wholesome Twitter Comic about 'Otaku' and 'Feminist'


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Gem-Bug



Joined: 10 Nov 2018
Posts: 103
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:02 pm Reply with quote
This makes me really happy

Last edited by Gem-Bug on Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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theilikepie



Joined: 30 Aug 2017
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:15 pm Reply with quote
Two households, both alike in dignity,on the internet , where we lay our scene, From ancient grudge break to new mutiny, Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
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Kisuke525



Joined: 05 Nov 2019
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:31 pm Reply with quote
Gem-Bug wrote:
This make me really happy, but I'm sure this thread will fill up with the same folks who live to complain about this stuff like every other "PC, Feminism, Gender, etc" thread. Rolling Eyes


No offense but you kinda just contributed to that lol.
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tomaszterkates



Joined: 19 Feb 2020
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:51 pm Reply with quote
The typical "both sides are wrong/right" comic that doesn't answer core answer why female/male/cis/religious fragility should dictate what artistic expression that doesn't break law is acceptable in public and what's not.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 4935
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:34 pm Reply with quote
tomaszterkates wrote:
The typical "both sides are wrong/right" comic that doesn't answer core answer why female/male/cis/religious fragility should dictate what artistic expression that doesn't break law is acceptable in public and what's not.


Indeed. It doesn't take a side and this in turn implies it's siding with the otaku because it's ignoring the actual problems with certain portrayals IN PUBLIC that are inappropriate and sometimes even promote/push misogynistic views. If this were a manga and people complained, I would fully understand why people were mad about the complaints because you can choose not to read it. But if something is in public and put up somewhere that's on your route to work or whatever, you can't simply avoid it. You don't get a "Choice" to view that possibly problematic image, it's there. That's the issue for me. In PUBLIC, there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.
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RealMTL



Joined: 09 Jun 2018
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:02 pm Reply with quote
Interesting, that's pretty cool. Weird to see one of these that don't take sides.
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lys



Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 940
Location: mitten-state
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:41 pm Reply with quote
I think the taller wavy-haired person is a boy (Suzuki-kun) and the shorter, with an earring, is a girl (Fuji-san?), so the summary here has it switched...?
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capt_bunny



Joined: 31 May 2015
Posts: 223
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:09 pm Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
Indeed. It doesn't take a side and this in turn implies it's siding with the otaku because it's ignoring the actual problems with certain portrayals IN PUBLIC that are inappropriate and sometimes even promote/push misogynistic views. If this were a manga and people complained, I would fully understand why people were mad about the complaints because you can choose not to read it. But if something is in public and put up somewhere that's on your route to work or whatever, you can't simply avoid it. You don't get a "Choice" to view that possibly problematic image, it's there. That's the issue for me. In PUBLIC, there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.


Oh, I do agree with this. As a feminist and a big fan; my issue is more with pubic and easy access to younger audiences. If it wasn't in public and more private then I would be fine with a lot of things with certain posters. A lot of people tend to forget by how we saw instead of talking about what makes it an issue.
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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 359
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:18 pm Reply with quote
capt_bunny wrote:
Oh, I do agree with this. As a feminist and a big fan; my issue is more with pubic and easy access to younger audiences. If it wasn't in public and more private then I would be fine with a lot of things with certain posters. A lot of people tend to forget by how we saw instead of talking about what makes it an issue.


Sort of like schools enforcing dress codes that people complain about, I guess.
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Sekaro



Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 149
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:23 pm Reply with quote
I'm only reading the article's summary of the manga and not even the actual manga itself and I'm already grinning throughout it all Anime hyper
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Frog-kun



Joined: 10 Jun 2017
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:24 pm Reply with quote
lys wrote:
I think the taller wavy-haired person is a boy (Suzuki-kun) and the shorter, with an earring, is a girl (Fuji-san?), so the summary here has it switched...?


Omg you're right. I got misled by the character designs and didn't pay attention to the names. I fixed all the pronouns in the summary.
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encrypted12345



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 592
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:33 pm Reply with quote
In the face of various European countries being okay with nude real life people in their advertising or even occasionally in public, I don't see clothed, if sexualized, fictional women being used in advertising as an issue.

I'm personally not okay with how Europe does things, but the Uzaki Red Cross Poster isn't remotely close to that, much less the silly controversy with the orange poster.
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Mizuki-Takashima



Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 184
Location: Central Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:26 am Reply with quote
Quote:
"The girl responds that he likes everything about her, and that she really respects her personality and how she chooses to wear a cute outfit because that's what she likes."


I think you mean that "she likes everything about her" Wink

Aside from the type-o, I gotta say....as someone who is both a feminist and an otaku, this sort of argument doesn't actually work.

The character didn't "choose" nor have the "courage" to dress a certain way. A real life artist has to decide how they're going to draw their character.

Artists are free to express themselves however they'd like, of course. But their work doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's not divorced from their own personal biases. And it certainly isn't untouched by the society that informs the artists's worldview.

I also feel like an artist needs to be introspective and know what is and isn't an appropriate time to draw a certain thing. A busty and mature foxy lady existing in your manga universe doesn't make you a bad person. But maybe don't have her breasts be the focus in literally every single composition and/or frame that she's in?

This should go double for advertisers. Do you want real life women to feel like they have no value unless they look like hairless prepubescent children? No? Then quit using half naked lolis to advertise your cream soda or whatever the fudge. ((Made up example but you get my point))
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BodaciousSpacePirate
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 2869
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:31 am Reply with quote
Mizuki-Takashima wrote:
The character didn't "choose" nor have the "courage" to dress a certain way. A real life artist has to decide how they're going to draw their character.


I can't help but feel as though artists who say stuff like that are the anime/manga industry equivalents of wrestlers who see their fans as nothing more than gullible marks. "Oh, sorry, I might be the best in the industry at drawing really sexy maids, but I couldn't in good conscience draw the heroine of Moe Moe Juicy Butt Ninjas in a sexy maid outfit if it didn't fit her personality!" Respect our intelligence a little more, we know what we're buying.
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Rentwo



Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 57
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:47 am Reply with quote
BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:
I can't help but feel as though artists who say stuff like that are the anime/manga industry equivalents of wrestlers who see their fans as nothing more than gullible marks. "Oh, sorry, I might be the best in the industry at drawing really sexy maids, but I couldn't in good conscience draw the heroine of Moe Moe Juicy Butt Ninjas in a sexy maid outfit if it didn't fit her personality!" Respect our intelligence a little more, we know what we're buying.


And then people would complain about a creator being openly sexist and objectifying women. You can be either a Hideo Kojima and give in-universe reasons why for a woman is sexy, and people will complain and condemn. Or you can be a Yoko Taro and just say you like making sexy women and people will complain and condemn.

Just earlier today a toy company got blowback for making a sexy figure of a Transformers character and was shamed into deleting the Tweet. I presume the toy is still coming out since it's way too far in production to stop, but despite it being a premium figure not unlike anime figures made for the hardcore fans, it was deemed problmeatic enough and warranted threats and harassment to the artist and company all day until the Tweet was deleted. I don't really buy 'it's about it being in public not about being prudes' argument for one minute. As you said, please respect our intelligence. The argument went from it being about a poster in public to now people like Mizuki-Takashima saying to not focus on a characters breasts even if that's what the artist wants to, implying there is ever an appropriate time to draw or not draw something in their own work they're making for their own audience. You either support an artist's creative expression or you don't, just be honest about it.
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