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gridsleep
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 Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:57 pm
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Good for her. War is obscene. Sex is clean.
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Engineering Nerd
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 898
Location: Southern California
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:58 pm
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The ugly thing about “obscenity law” is how intentionally vague the wording is, which gives police and court abundant space for ruling interpretation.
Her banner said”historic ruling”, yeah, indeed, no matter you like it or not, this ruling will be written in the future Japanese Law school textbooks.
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LiteMangime
Joined: 21 Jun 2014
Posts: 350
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:29 pm
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Tell me why the title for that book sounds like it'd also work as a LN/manga title 
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Netero
Joined: 10 Jun 2018
Posts: 163
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:58 pm
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Whoever designed those traffic cones should definitely be charged with obscenity, they're so phallic.
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Villain-chan
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:55 pm
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| Quote: | | The lower courts had ruled that the 3D data "realistically reproduce the shape (of female genitalia) and stimulate the viewers' sexual desire." |
Uhhh, aside from the 1st part, they do realize that ecchi scenes in anime and figs and any kind of art that's ecchi does the exact same thing... not to mention the human body, clothes people wear, the way they talk, act and so on ALL stimulate people's sexual desires... yet the world is still fine despite that. :P This is bs and am all for this girl challenging the courts on this, down with censorship which is actually dictatorship I say!
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Top Gun
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4584
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:09 pm
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"Obscenity" as an overall legal concept is laughably broken and should not exist in any sense. So long as no individual is being harmed, no one should have the right to dictate what sort of media a legal adult can or cannot consume. it violates the very core of freedom of expression. The United States is no less guilty than Japan of applying "obscenity" utterly capriciously.
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AmpersandsUnited
Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 633
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:53 pm
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| Villain-chan wrote: | Uhhh, aside from the 1st part, they do realize that ecchi scenes in anime and figs and any kind of art that's ecchi does the exact same thing... not to mention the human body, clothes people wear, the way they talk, act and so on ALL stimulate people's sexual desires... yet the world is still fine despite that.  This is bs and am all for this girl challenging the courts on this, down with censorship which is actually dictatorship I say! |
The first part is the most important, the second is just to prove intent. Yes, ecchi and porn exists, but they're all censored and don't show genitalia for a reason. It really comes down to showing genitalia uncensored, which is illegal in Japan and why she was charged. The reason they emphasize the intent of sexual gratification is to make a distinction between something like Dragonball where you can see Goku's baby penis and a hentai where a man's penis would be drawn with more detail and used for erotic and sexual purposes. In her case, it's why she had a cases against her in the past dismissed because the images were deemed to be used in an artistic manner. I imagine the main problem here was her use of the internet to distribute the data and images.
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Hakase
Joined: 25 Oct 2018
Posts: 55
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:01 pm
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| gridsleep wrote: | | Good for her. War is obscene. Sex is clean. |
Tell that to western companies and western gaming industry
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Changeman
Joined: 06 Jun 2018
Posts: 220
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:06 pm
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| AmpersandsUnited wrote: |
| Villain-chan wrote: | Uhhh, aside from the 1st part, they do realize that ecchi scenes in anime and figs and any kind of art that's ecchi does the exact same thing... not to mention the human body, clothes people wear, the way they talk, act and so on ALL stimulate people's sexual desires... yet the world is still fine despite that. This is bs and am all for this girl challenging the courts on this, down with censorship which is actually dictatorship I say! |
The first part is the most important, the second is just to prove intent. Yes, ecchi and porn exists, but they're all censored and don't show genitalia for a reason. It really comes down to showing genitalia uncensored, which is illegal in Japan and why she was charged. The reason they emphasize the intent of sexual gratification is to make a distinction between something like Dragonball where you can see Goku's baby penis and a hentai where a man's penis would be drawn with more detail and used for erotic and sexual purposes. In her case, it's why she had a cases against her in the past dismissed because the images were deemed to be used in an artistic manner. I imagine the main problem here was her use of the internet to distribute the data and images. |
She made a mistake, if she wanted to exhibit sexual organs in all splendor in Japan, she should have done so at the festival Kanamara Matsuri:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanamara_Matsuri
If it is for religious reasons, sexual organs may appear.
But I honestly find it so hyprocratic that so many Westerners criticizing Japan about it while the Amazon begins this policy of banning works that "do not fit global standards".
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kotomikun
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 1205
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:12 pm
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Are they also gonna throw fines at men for drawing penises in public restrooms? I dunno how common it is over there, but you could fund the entire US government just from that.
Or they could, maybe, not criminalize imagery of human body parts. At least 50% of the population has seen the real-life version. Not clear who they're trying to protect. The male children?
| Changeman wrote: | | But I honestly find it so hyprocratic that so many Westerners criticizing Japan about it while the Amazon begins this policy of banning works that "do not fit global standards". |
I mean... if you've seen the length of that thread, you can probably tell we're not happy about that, either. Our government, and corporations apparently, mainly listens to conservative rich people, and ignores everyone else. It wouldn't be hypocritical for Japanese people to complain about their own country's rules--that's exactly what this woman is doing--so, we can do that, too.
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Sailor Sedna
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:31 pm
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I've never gotten nor understood this obscenity law.
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Shay Guy
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2129
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:45 pm
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Apropos of nothing, Igarashi's Twitter handle is @6d745, and on top of everything else about her (including how she forced a court official to say "manko" as many times as possible), I have to salute her use of goroawase, as a fellow lover of punnery.
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John Thacker
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 1006
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:58 pm
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| Top Gun wrote: | | The United States is no less guilty than Japan of applying "obscenity" utterly capriciously. |
In the past, yes, but it's nearly impossible to have a per se obscenity charge in the US currently (for distribution of your own works or really anything short of over the air broadcast), so it's nonsense to say that the US is no less guilty. The Miller test is extremely vague, to be sure, but it's nearly impossible to satisfy in practice and so nearly everything is legal outside of evidence of actual abuse. Doesn't mean that some retailers won't sell some things, but you're not going to get court fines and charges over it, and the line is far, far away from Japanese law.
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John Thacker
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 1006
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:06 pm
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| Changeman wrote: | | But I honestly find it so hyprocratic that so many Westerners criticizing Japan about it while the Amazon begins this policy of banning works that "do not fit global standards". |
If we're changing the subject from what gets you criminal charges to what causes a corporation to drop you, then again Japan easily beats the US with the total unpersoning of celebrities for things like drug charges or infidelity.
But it's not hypocritical in any case if people also criticize their own country, which certainly both Americans do as well as Japanese. It's both people who fail to criticize their own country and people who let foreign countries off who are hypocrites. The Japanese are real people with moral responsibilities and can accept criticism where merited, just like Americans or any other civilized people.
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Changeman
Joined: 06 Jun 2018
Posts: 220
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:55 pm
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And nobody will comment on Kanamara Matsuri? About how it is allowed to wear T-shirts and suck lollipops in the form of sexual organs in the middle of the street during the day, but is it forbidden to watch an adult video with that uncensored sexual organs locked in the room?
Last edited by Changeman on Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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