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NEWS: Lupin III Part 6 Anime Teases Sherlock Holmes Plot, Writer Mamoru Oshii, October 9 Debut


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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
Posts: 1022
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:19 pm Reply with quote
Hopefully Oshii will be back on form here. I don't mind him wanting to return his comedy days but he can do better than unfunny trolling like Vladlove.

Also will Sherlock Holmes be the real version somehow still alive, a descendent or a clone like Leonardo da Vinci in Part 4?
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Somer-_-



Joined: 14 May 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:32 pm Reply with quote
Ah Herlock Sholmes.

Hope the Conan Doyle estate doesn't impede this like with Ace Attorney.
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RockSplash



Joined: 28 Oct 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:50 pm Reply with quote
Honestly, I seriously thought that guy with the kid was Jigen with no hat until I realized Jigen with a hat was right next to him.
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RockSplash



Joined: 28 Oct 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:51 pm Reply with quote
#GreenjacketLives
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:55 pm Reply with quote
Lupin vs. Sherlock Holmes? Kind of reminds me of Lupin vs Conan.
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RockSplash



Joined: 28 Oct 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:57 pm Reply with quote
MFrontier wrote:
Lupin vs. Sherlock Holmes? Kind of reminds me of Lupin vs Conan.


I mean his greeat grandfather already dealt with Sherlock Holmes in the 1880s. Sorry, Herlock Sholmes. Seriously, any LUPIN III fan should try reading some original Arsene Lupin stories. Very different in tone and story, but still very fun nonetheless.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2025
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:15 pm Reply with quote
RockSplash wrote:
MFrontier wrote:
Lupin vs. Sherlock Holmes? Kind of reminds me of Lupin vs Conan.


I mean his greeat grandfather already dealt with Sherlock Holmes in the 1880s. Sorry, Herlock Sholmes.


Unless you lived in Germany in 1910 or Japan in 1981, as both of those countries did indeed produce "Arsene Lupin vs. Sherlock Holmes" productions, licensed names be damned. Unfortunately, the German film serial is now a lost film, while the Japanese anime TV special has never seen the light of day since it first aired, likely in fear of being hounded by the Doyle Estate.

Though I guess maybe Lupin Part 6 will get away with it by having Holmes be a downright jerk, as apparently the only Sherlock Holmes stories that are have yet to enter the public domain are the later ones where he's the nice detective that we all know him as. Supposedly, the Doyle Estate can't do anything about a production in which Sherlock Holmes is a terrible person, as Doyle originally wrote him as, since that portrayal of the character is now in the public domain.
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RockSplash



Joined: 28 Oct 2019
Posts: 335
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:18 pm Reply with quote
Lord Geo wrote:
RockSplash wrote:
MFrontier wrote:
Lupin vs. Sherlock Holmes? Kind of reminds me of Lupin vs Conan.


I mean his greeat grandfather already dealt with Sherlock Holmes in the 1880s. Sorry, Herlock Sholmes.


Unless you lived in Germany in 1910 or Japan in 1981, as both of those countries did indeed produce "Arsene Lupin vs. Sherlock Holmes" productions, licensed names be damned. Unfortunately, the German film serial is now a lost film, while the Japanese anime TV special has never seen the light of day since it first aired, likely in fear of being hounded by the Doyle Estate.

Though I guess maybe Lupin Part 6 will get away with it by having Holmes be a downright jerk, as apparently the only Sherlock Holmes stories that are have yet to enter the public domain are the later ones where he's the nice detective that we all know him as. Supposedly, the Doyle Estate can't do anything about a production in which Sherlock Holmes is a terrible person, as Doyle originally wrote him as, since that portrayal of the character is now in the public domain.


Have you read Holmes? He has always been portrayed as nice, yet borderline suicidal at times. He is obsessive and nosy. A good person, but not really the nicest guy in most.Doyle stories. Watson was always the narrator because Holmes would be such a hard to follow protagonist for readers at the time.
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Egan Loo



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:52 pm Reply with quote
Lord Geo wrote:
Though I guess maybe Lupin Part 6 will get away with it by having Holmes be a downright jerk, as apparently the only Sherlock Holmes stories that are have yet to enter the public domain are the later ones where he's the nice detective that we all know him as. Supposedly, the Doyle Estate can't do anything about a production in which Sherlock Holmes is a terrible person, as Doyle originally wrote him as, since that portrayal of the character is now in the public domain.


What's fascinating is that all of Doyle's Sherlock Holmes stories are now public domain in his home country and practically in every other country in the world. Only the last six short stories (out of 56 short stories and four novels) are still copyrighted in the United States. Four of them will go public domain there in exactly four months (January 1, 2022), and all Holmes stories by Doyle will be public domain by January 1, 2023.

There's a chance that Sherlock Holmes will be entirely public domain in the last remaining holdout country by the time this anime finishes its home video release.

https://www.latimes.com/books/jacketcopy/la-et-jc-sherlock-holmes-public-domain-20140805-story.html

https://blog.jipel.law.nyu.edu/2020/12/sherlock-holmes-and-the-case-of-the-copyrightable-character/

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/04/i-think-I've-written-more-sherlock-holmes-than-even-conan-doyle-the-ongoing-fight-to-reimagine-holmes


Last edited by Egan Loo on Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fluwm



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 542
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:54 pm Reply with quote
I'm not sure why exactly theres been this recent EXPLOSION(!) in Lupin III anime... seriously, four(!) series all in the same decade? This is nuts. But I also don't care why because it is the BEST THING EVER!

RockSplash wrote:
MFrontier wrote:
Lupin vs. Sherlock Holmes? Kind of reminds me of Lupin vs Conan.
Seriously, any LUPIN III fan should try reading some original Arsene Lupin stories. Very different in tone and story, but still very fun nonetheless.

This x1000. I'd argue LeBlanc's writing has aged far better than pretty much any of his contemporaries, including Doyle and Christie. And the stories are fun AF. Arsene Lupin is essentially the world's first anticapitalist superhero, which is rad as hell.

Just be sure to start with the short stories. The novels are... a different beast entirely, especially the later ones.

Somer-_- wrote:
Ah Herlock Sholmes.
Hope the Conan Doyle estate doesn't impede this like with Ace Attorney.

Is there any evidence of that? Sherlock Holmes is a public domain character--only certain stories still fall under copyright--but even if he weren't, it's a non-issue, as parody is protected from copyright infringement claims.
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KefkaesqueXIII



Joined: 30 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:41 pm Reply with quote
Fluwm wrote:
Somer-_- wrote:
Ah Herlock Sholmes.
Hope the Conan Doyle estate doesn't impede this like with Ace Attorney.

Is there any evidence of that? Sherlock Holmes is a public domain character--only certain stories still fall under copyright--but even if he weren't, it's a non-issue, as parody is protected from copyright infringement claims.


No direct evidence to my knowledge, but it is a common assumption based on the way the Doyle estate wields those last few copyrighted books like a cudgel (just last year they sued Netflix over it's Enola Holmes movie, claiming that only the "aloof and unemotional" version of Sherlock is public domain) and how Capcom decided to change the name during localization to Herlock Sholmes (LeBlanc's own method of getting around the Holmes copyright)
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blahmoomoo



Joined: 27 Jan 2020
Posts: 206
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:49 pm Reply with quote
Fluwm wrote:

Somer-_- wrote:
Ah Herlock Sholmes.
Hope the Conan Doyle estate doesn't impede this like with Ace Attorney.

Is there any evidence of that? Sherlock Holmes is a public domain character--only certain stories still fall under copyright--but even if he weren't, it's a non-issue, as parody is protected from copyright infringement claims.


Using the same character in a different context with minor changes by itself is not parody. It needs to be more transformative to be defensible, such as being a critique or commentary on the character.

It seems likely that Capcom USA changed Sherlock's name to avoid a possible lawsuit, whether it would actually happen or not, since he is definitely lighthearted in that game (as far as I've seen, at least). In comparison, Moriarty the Patriot probably got away with not changing Sherlock's name since the focus is on Moriarty, who is entirely in the public domain, and Sherlock's mannerisms were calculating and focused on being an adversary, probably not similar to how he is in the works still under copyright (disclaimer: I don't know the specific details of the works under copyright).
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 4450
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:56 am Reply with quote
Fluwm wrote:
I'm not sure why exactly theres been this recent EXPLOSION(!) in Lupin III anime... seriously, four(!) series all in the same decade? This is nuts. But I also don't care why because it is the BEST THING EVER!
From my understand, at some point in the 80s interest in the franchise started to die down and they started doing those yearly TV specials in the 90s. Then the series continued on in that form with the occasional Movie, until Sayo Yamamoto reenergised the franchise with The Woman Called Fujiko Mine. And TMS decided to do another mainline entry which must have done well so they did another one for the anniversary. .
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:12 am Reply with quote
Not a fan of Vladlove, either, but it's nice to get some news.
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donhumberto



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 649
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:13 am Reply with quote
Looking really good. I really like the serious vibes I'm getting from the visual. Hopefully they keep the comedy to a minimum and focus on the mistery/Thriller stuff.
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