Forum - View topicINTEREST: Japanese Legislator Retracts Claim That Nintendo Lobbies on Generative AI
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AiddonValentine
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I mean, let's face it, Nintendo not using it at all is enough. They probably just want weirdo AI bros to leave them be
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Cypher997
Posts: 192 |
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Nice to know that 'Big N' isn't using Generative AI yet, but at some point they might end up using it for their next project's 'pre-production' stage in some manner just to keep pace with their longtime rival (Sony).
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AsleepBySunset
Posts: 315 |
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I'm not saying I think nintendo are paragons of moral principle but why would they "need ai to keep pace with sony"? I understand that for a lot of beginners, making a half decent pictures means slaving away for 8-20 hours plus, staring at references, but if you just hire better artists you skip that. |
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Cardcaptor Takato
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TokimekiCrisis
Posts: 131 |
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It's just a smart business descension to remain neutral on any emerging technology that you could end up using yourself one day. Those Sora 2 videos people have bene posting all over the place the last few days look genuinely amazing but also terrifying at how realistic and believable they can be - and it's only going to continue to improve.
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DRosencraft
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The PS5 also released Nov of 2020, receiving only a relatively minor upgrade this year that also came with a price spike. Historically, going back over the last couple decades, Sony's commonly outsold the competition in the gaming market, in no way threatening to kill off Nintendo, but relegating Nintendo to basically operating in its own niche away from the rest of the gaming sphere where Sony and Xbox battled it out with PC gaming. Now, Xbox seems to have lost out on that war with mixed reporting that they may be on the way out of the console business. Sony's consoles have routinely after launch gone on to dominate the console sales charts, only falling off near the end of the cycle when someone else releases a new console and their own next console is seen to be on the horizon (rumors are they'll announce the PS6 next year). As it more directly pertains to the question at hand of generative AI, one of the reasons Nintendo has commonly been seen to be lacking by some in the gaming community is due to the reliance (some say overreliance) on its tentpole franchises of Super Mario, Donkey Kong, and Legend of Zelda. That they have had a hard time designing and creating innovative games that aren't just those three franchises. Speaking specifically to LoZ, there is commonly criticism of some of their efforts at reinventing that series, both in terms of the art style used for the games, and the development of the gameplay progression, mechanics, and puzzles. Sony does not have that same type of "sticky" tentpole franchise, but is able to consistently (or at least consistently enough) come out of new exclusive or semi-exclusive games that are ultimately what drive players to buy one console over another. The issues isn't whether Nintendo will use generative AI for Mario, Donkey Kong, or Zelda - most I think would assume they'd be the absolute last franchises to be touched by AI. But for all the other games that Nintendo needs to make to fill out a year, let alone a console cycle, that have to be made to keep interest in the console itself going. Taking this statement at face value, Nintendo is saying the don't and won't be using AI for any of that. At a minimum, it will potentially save their competitors who are using it some time and money. Even if it's a difference of one game a year, that one game could end up being the gaming equivalent of K-Pop Demon Hunters - some phenomenon that ends up bagging a lot of interest and cash. That is the challenge any new business faces when a competitor starts using some new technology or method that you are skipping out on. The business (Nintendo) has to make the decision on whether they expect that to be an issue for them going forward or just a passing fancy that won't impact them longer term. Despite the angst we may have towards AI, the reality is that Nintendo's competitors will use it, and the benefits case is very apparent. If it does in fact save them both time and money, Nintendo is only going to ignore AI for so long before as a business they have no real choice but to use it too just to keep level on the playing field. |
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
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You may need to consult an eye doctor. |
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AiddonValentine
Posts: 2973 |
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-Looks at Nintendo's output of basically one game every month for eight years. Then looks at Sony and MS's far, FAR slower slower outputs- I think you have that massively backwards. Also, it's funny how often "niche" comes with Nintendo despite them clearly being the market leader. Seems more like everyone needs to take Nintendo's advice |
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FishLion
 Crazy Fangirl Posts: 861 |
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The Sora videos look so horrid to me. It just looks like they copied Mario from the illumination series in a different outfit and they pasted it over movies. It's really fun if you find the idea of pasting Nintenndo characters over movies fun, but they still haven't really shown they can create compelling original content, just fan content with character inserts pasted over old stuff. I guess if you enjoy watching the exact same movie that you saw before with copyrighted characters pasted over it might be compelling, but to me the fun part of little crossover trailers and stuff was the fan love put into making them and the personal touches they added, something AI Sora generation will never recreate.
Also, it's interesting to see people say that Nintendo could fall behind because AI could assist Sony into making the next K-Pop Demon Hunters equivalent. If you look at the top game sales of all time and only look for first party console companies Nintendo dominates. In fact, Nintendo is the only console manufacturer that makes the best selling games of all time Top 50 at all, and a lot of Nintendo's best selling games are from the Switch. I guess Sony could try and AI generate their way into beating Nintendo, but if Nintendo dominates first party game sales and AI is primarily used for cutting corners I don't see how they beat Nintendo here. I guess they could just put out a non-stop train of AI supported games and over and over until they overwhelm Nintendo with sheer volume, but if they weren't making a massive hit that even breaks the top fifty before AI I doubt speedier corner cutting is going to put them over the edge to out run Nintendo. If they did make a big hit or two it would be a spaghetti at the wall method and not because AI allowed them to make the next franchise bigger than Zelda or Mario. So I hope Sony doesn't go that route because I bet if they put out some more original games with their popular IPs in the last few years maybe Nintendo wouldn't have this massive lead on them. I mean Hogwarts Legacy is on the Top 50, if they put out a more recent game in those franchises they probably could compete in the top 50, I am pretty sure that''s the issue and not that they need to rip off artists for slightly faster (maybe) but worse output. Honestly that would be sad though, I would hope all the canceled live service games showed them that creating a fun game with a vision beats trend chasing or designing to profit, and if they started widespread AI use it would just prove that they view their game as product and not art in the least. All companies treat games as products to some degree, but using AI shows a lack of respect for the process that makes me pretty sure those games are never going to touch Nintendo's 32% of top 50 selling games, at least I am never going to touch them to help them get there. |
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Fluwm
Moderator
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lol, right? Can you imagine if the other major publishers were as prolific? They'd have to start caring about more than incredibly bloated AAA games that take a decade to produce! Wild to me how we've collectively just decided it's perfectly sane for game development cycles to eclipse console lifespans. Also, can we please stop pretending Nintendo is catering to some small, niche audience, or that their target demographic is somehow separate from any other? Nintendo and Sony have always been in direct-competition. |
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Zased
 Posts: 149 |
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I don't know what videos you mean but when I see perfectly replicated videos that look like they're long lost episodes of Mr. Rogers meeting exotic dancers or documenting the journey of the Mayflower, or those videos of Michael Jackson stealing people's fast food orders in the drive through I think Pandora's Box has been opened. No doubt it could be used for original content if by original we mean not people making funny videos using real people or characters. But that's what gets the most traction on social media and gets eyes on the technology so most end users are going to use it for that. I've been watching xQc react to all the Sora videos of himself and the fact its already being used to make convincing fake CCV footage that looks real makes me wonder when we'll eventually see someone get arrested for a crime they didn't do because an AI video convinced people they did. |
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FishLion
Crazy Fangirl Posts: 861 |
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All of those things you listed have a ton of visual fodder to steal from. There are so many videos of Mister Rogers, exotic dancers, the Mayflower, Michael Jackson, and people stealing drive through orders. The only reason they look alright is because the purpose of the video is to mash up popular things and not be visually interesting or original. Those popular characters and situations get the most traction because there is plenty of examples for AI to use in creating it's generation, not just because it's popular It's the same reason you see plenty of pasting popular characters over popular movies but nobody is sharing their bespoke Mario animation that puts Illumination to shame. Which is exactly why AI is more suited to creating mematic content of popular franchises than anything wanting to be taken seriously as art. If art is made with AI it is due to the artist's efforts to take it away from being the most average thing possible and not due to the program. So in an environment where AI is the norm, low effort non original content is going to win every time. I know that was kind of your point, that popular stuff gets searched and thus makes the generated video popular, but at the end of the day I have not seen anything remotely impressive in terms of visual creativity. Great at unoriginal remixes, horrible at creating something visually interesting when it isn't taking from preexisting film or art. Getting it to string together an original video that doesn't look exactly like the type of uncanny slideshow we saw for those GenerAIdoscope trailers is not something it has proven itself as capable of quite yet. Now, it is very capable at putting someone in another place, I wouldn't doubt that there will be a ton of fake CCTV stuff and other things like that, especially popular characters. Definitely going to be a million FNAF parodies of popular franchises where every IP under the sun is made into evil animatronics and also videos of popular characters creeping through fake CCTV footage (because again there is so much CCTV footage) like we have people pretending to get stalked by Mickey Mouse at night, and misinformation from people believing AI videos. I don't know if or when someone will get arrested for it, but considering how many AI generated hoaxes I have seen already it is probably going to be more of that and probably eventually. So yeah, I stand by my statement that this is not remotely more impressive as a creative tool, they are just speeding up the gears that help people make personal content through theft. |
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Cardcaptor Takato
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Fluwm
Moderator
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One thing to keep in mind is that the more AI slop that is created, the more those AI models will be trained on AI slop, in a neverending recursive loop of terribleness.
Like at a certain point, those Michael Jackson videos won't be cobbled together from actual footage of the real person, but just... other AI-generated videos. |
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