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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1154

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:29 am Reply with quote
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I've stated before that I think fansubbing in this day and age of simulcasting just feels like a waste of effort and hubris


This is still true to an extent, but nowadays recent anime that's being simulcasted in mostly ripped now, with fansubs coming from only a small number of groups. Any recent shows that are fansubbed are mostly ones that aren't being simulcated.

In fact, within the past year fansubbing has put its focus more on older shows, i.e. the stuff that no company is going to license or even stream. For example, when Dattebayo saw that Naruto & Bleach were being handled just fine officially, what did they do? They started doing Ninku, a Shonen Jump anime from the 90s (of which all we ever got was the movie that was double-billed with Yu Yu Hakusho), and they teamed with another group to do VS Knight Lamune & 40 Fire, another mid-90s anime. Also, old mech anime has seen a slight resurgence in subbing, with titles like Xabungle, Dougram, Galient, and even Bryger and Daltanious (a.k.a Prototype-Voltron) getting subbed.

Naturally, those cocky people who think that they're still doing a "better" job at subbing recent shows will still exist, but at the same time simulcasting and streaming in general has made a good portion of fansubbing go towards a path the offers anime fans something that we can't get officially, which was the original goal of fansubbing in the first place.
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asimpson2006



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3150
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:35 am Reply with quote
Another great Answerman this week. First, I am not that opposed to shows that bring nothing new to the table as long it keeps me entertained. For example this season Listen to me girls I am your father. Everything that show has to offer I have seen elsewhere yet it still kept me entertained and wanting to watch more of the show.

I treat fansubbers and rippers as two different groups. I see fansubbers as those providing something to those who are either not able to use a site (CR, VizAnime, etc) due to region, money, internet connection, etc. I see rippers as those who steal something from a legit source and then selling them via a black market. Yes I know rippers are not selling the shows they rip but they are just a group of entitled d-bags.

I think I will write in to the question for the week since I do have some ideas.
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prime_pm



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 1501
Location: Under Your Bed

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:55 am Reply with quote
I admit. I've ripped dvd's just to use the material for amv's. Just rent the show from Netflix, decrypt it, then go through all that video editing stuff, and I have material for amv's. After Netflix went weird, I switched over to streaming and I haven't ripped for a while now. Their catalog's been lacking in the dvd aisle anyhow. I guess this qualifies me as a douchebag. Your mileage may vary.

But ripping a dvd and posting it on Bittorrent with your supposed name on it? That's just bullshit. They give DVDFab and DVD Shrink a bad name. Call me a hypocrite, but this just sounds worse to me.
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Melanchthon



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 550
Location: Northwest from Here

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:56 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Hello friends and neighbors! Not that any of you are my actual neighbors or anything. I just wanted to sound friendly.

Well,actually, you know that house for sale near you, yeah, I'm squatting there so I can steak into your place at night and watch you as you sleep.

...Moving on...

Yay, piracy! Yes, rippers are the scum of the earth, I'm not here to argue that. Here's the thing, they are only relevant if they have a market to serve. Take a look at this xkcd. It's about music piracy, but the principle is the same. Let's say I want there is this new anime I want to watch. I pay Crunchy for to see it in relative quality, and I like it. But nobody licenses it because it's isn't that popular, and so I can't physically own it. Move on a year or two later, and I feel like rewatching this show. I go to Crunchy to watch it again only, it's not there anymore, the license expired. So I go and download pirated copies. The ultimate question is: What advantage is there for me to pay for Crunchyroll in the first place, if I'm going to end up as a pirate anyway?

And as for the question of the week, I found it amusing to ask a committed pirate how to prevent piracy. For the unaware, SOPA is, in technical terms, retarded, and your average high school nerd could contravene it within minutes. I, personally, have already prepared several ways to avoid it, in case some of my regular sites get banhammered. So. How would I stop piracy? Well, the reason I pirate anime is to have permanent copy of the show that I can watch in my leisure (with a sidebar reason of being able to fix the subtitles and put the characters' names back in Japanese order). Since there is no way that every single anime series will be released in 'merica, the best solution would be a drm-free digital download from the streaming sites. What I mean is you could have your subscription to Crunchy, watch a show, like it, and then make a small payment to download a digital copy. This copy could then be placed on one of those cloud things that the techies talk so much about, as long as I could also have a copy on my local machine. Then, if it ever gets lost or deleted, I could just redownload it. Basically, it would be everything I could do with a fansub, except it would be legal. Yeah, that's not going to happen. And it can't be too expensive- I think $2.50 would be a good ceiling, but the Japanese suits would freak.
As for manga piracy, we already have a service for that: Jmanga. All it needs is a bigger selection. When I can find things like Sickness Unto Death (I'm a huge Kierkegaard fan) on it, then I'll be happy.
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Mesonoxian Eve



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 1858

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:30 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The ways that we consume anime and manga have changed and this change has caught these media companies without a viable business model.

I concur. They needed the first 10 years to adamantly protest the change in both distribution and consumer markets.

If they only had 10 more years to adapt new business models since joining 2010.

I know, that's a shitty thing to say, but I don't care. It's the truth. These industries, and not just related to anime, fought, kicked, screamed, forced stupid laws to pass, and made it difficult for anyone to adapt because they just saw the numbers dropping, not a warning message times were changing.

Sympathy will be reserved for the anime industry caught off guard when nature decided to literally spit on the country.

I'm glad to see about 70,000 other fans agree.

What a coincident the execution angle of anime was discussed, given this is what Zac stated separates Clannad from, well, something good.

Once he reminded us of this, everything just went subjective.
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Soundmonkey44



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 1243

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:41 am Reply with quote
Personally i disagree abit with the reply on the cartoon/anime thing. I mean yes many U.S./EU toons suffer from being genaric, but is that anyworse then so many anime & manga suffering from the same overused cliche/trope? Not IMO.

As for there not being another Airbender, well theres a new series for it coming out soon, lol. But I know thats not what he meant. As for U.S action toons in general, I personally have highly enjoyed Generator Rex & Young Justice, and the new Thundercats on CN. then on the comedy front Adventure Time & Regular show are pretty good.

And as for good toons for girls (and guys who just want somthing more relaxing) theres MLP: Friendship is magic.

Heck at this point I find myself enjoying more domsetic then foriegn animations. But I do agree that the Toon industry has little chance of stilling away fans from the anime industry, but..it doesn't need to, animation is animation, its all good, U.S./ EU, Japan.. Animation rocks!

But yeah... thats just my opinion.
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Hypeathon



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 986

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:49 am Reply with quote
I honestly wish someone out there would more thoroughly breakdown and clarify what they mean when they say a show "just needs to be of good quality" or "the story/plot/writing just needs to be good." And anytime someone who doesn't understand earnestly asks what those people mean when they say "it just needs to be of high quality" or something, they're still being vague about it by just saying what elements in a script need to be good without saying how. That or they would say "it just needs to not be bad/terrible/horrid/shitty quality," or whatever other negative term used as a mere adjective to describe what makes a good story and what doesn't. Or even worse, those people might say "it's not hard to understand" or "are your eyes broken" or "it's not my fault if you can't tell how bad it is."

I'm not denying that there isn't a way to understand and notice what makes films and shows better quality than others I just feel like there's a lack of being constructive with criticisms so that people who don't seem to get it could get it if it was explained that way. Sometimes I hear from some people that you don't need to be a screenwriter or director to know what makes a good film or a bad film. While I don't deny that if you observe enough films to be able to take mental notes on them you could sort of subconscious get the feeling of when a film/TV show is good or bad, unless you can say, explain how that story can be improved from the fundamentals of screenwriting for film/TV, then it wouldn't feel clear for some people.

To me that's like saying you know what makes good art and bad art by only observing a lot of paintings, drawings and sculptures, and yet you've hardly practiced with any art utensils for any medium or you've never learned about the elements of art, principles of design, color theory, perspective, the human anatomy or any animal anatomy. Hell, that's also like saying you know what makes good quality animation vs bad quality animation when you never practiced animation, learned the 12 principles of animation or learned how animation applies as both an art form and a storytelling medium. It's probably why I see so many anime fans in any debate about animation between Japan and America or something, argue that it's not about the animation but the story instead when they don't realize animation is part of telling the story or when people argue good animation is based on just frame rate.

It would just personally be nice if there were more fans out there (if there are even much of them at all) who could explain what makes a show good or bad or how a show could be improved with a more expansive knowledge and understanding in that kind of constructive manner if that makes any sense.
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Salsaman1991



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:08 am Reply with quote
Soundmonkey44 wrote:
As for there not being another Airbender, well theres a new series for it coming out soon, lol. But I know thats not what he meant. As for U.S action toons in general, I personally have highly enjoyed Generator Rex & Young Justice, and the new Thundercats on CN. then on the comedy front Adventure Time & Regular show are pretty good.


Great to see another Adventure Time fan here. I sat down with my little brother to watch it two weeks ago and loved it. I marathoned the hell out of it last week. It's true that it's not the most innovative cartoon out there, but it's just good, old-fashioned fun.

And speaking of Vertigo and american comics, I can't recommend this four titles enough: Morning Glories, Green Wake, DMZ and The Unwritten. Give them a chance and you won't be disappointed.
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Soundmonkey44



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 1243

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:10 am Reply with quote
I think I get what your saying. But at the same time, good and bad is subjective, one mans trash is another mans treasure and what not. I mean yes there is set criteria to which one can judge the quality of media, but even that is subjective to our biases and how we percive whats in front of us.

But yes I can agree that a series animation is just as important at the story, characters, etc.


Anywho as for the funsubbers VS Rippers thing, Personally I had no idea such a differance exsisted..I've always just called anyone who distributes media through illegal means Pirates, didn't know some groups were hated/liked more or less then others, wow you learn somting new everyday don't yea, lol.

EDIT: @Salesman: Yeah I've pretty much loved Animation & Comics both foriegn & domestic since I was a little kid. AT is one of my favorite comedies on TV along with Regular &MLP.

As for comics, I haven't read any of vertigo's titles, but I am reading some of DC's new 52 books, love Animal Man & Demon Knights myself. Also loved Archie's Sonic comic since I was a wee lad, lol.

But yeah, glad to meet a fellow AT fan! *brohoof*
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Salsaman1991



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:27 am Reply with quote
Soundmonkey44 wrote:
EDIT: @Salesman: Yeah I've pretty much loved Animation & Comics both foriegn & domestic since I was a little kid. AT is one of my favorite comedies on TV along with Regular &MLP.

As for comics, I haven't read any of vertigo's titles, but I am reading some of DC's new 52 books, love Animal Man & Demon Knights myself. Also loved Archie's Sonic comic since I was a wee lad, lol.

But yeah, glad to meet a fellow AT fan! *brohoof*


I read most of the New 52's #1s, but I only really got into Batman and Aquaman. Yes, Aquaman. I was pleasantly surprised to find he's such a badass. And Static Shock was a little disappointing. I was a huge fan of the TV show, but the comic didn't seem to capture everything I loved about it. I also follow Iron Man, over on Marvel's side, but not much else.

Before AT, it had been a long time since I'd last paid attention to cartoons. I think the last one I really dug was Invader Zim.
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Hypeathon



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 986

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:03 pm Reply with quote
Soundmonkey44 wrote:
I think I get what your saying. But at the same time, good and bad is subjective, one mans trash is another mans treasure and what not. I mean yes there is set criteria to which one can judge the quality of media, but even that is subjective to our biases and how we percive whats in front of us.

The problem is that there are a bunch of people out there who tend to argue something that may be subjective as being objective and can be hard to tell if someone is really arguing based on fundamental knowledge of a craft or if they're just giving they're opinion. If that person is going say, argue something objectively bad about the writing in a show and someone like me who may have a lesser knowledge and understanding of screenwriting would like to take that person's word for it, then it would be nice if that person could be constructive and give clarity of what they beyond simply describe how bad or good something is.

Soundmonkey44 wrote:
But yes I can agree that a series animation is just as important at the story, characters, etc.

To elaborate on that a bit, I was told something recently from one of my professors that I want to take more to heart. He said "animators are actors with a pencil." Imagine a scene where part of the story was being told without any dialogue coming from the character. An animator would have to direct himself to think and express on multiple drawings how the character in that scene is suppose to express him/herself based on his/her personality and how they feel at that moment. The animator has to think about both directing that character to do whatever gesture they need to do as well as be in mind of that character and act out the scene appropriately.

The thing with anime is that there is so much of a reliance on dialogue to help tell the story in most shows (and I'm not denying that dialogue also has it's importance in storytelling), that all you need is a character to stay still with talking with a vivid lighting and color scheme in the scene to make any viewer overlook that. In fact, another professor who taught my layout & design course said once that you can take the most bland-looking room and add a certain type of vivid, lighting to make the scene supposedly look beautiful and thus in shows like Guilty Crown, Hanasaku Iroha, Shakugan no Shana, Steins Gate, or To aru Majutsu no Index get praised for their "detail in art." That's not to say that the art in any of those shows is bad, they've just successfully given that illusion that it's eye candy to them.
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Soundmonkey44



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 1243

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:19 pm Reply with quote
@salesman: Ironman eh, neat. I myself am a hugh marvel zombie, lol. Tras to many marvel books, lol. My favorites atm though Are the x books. Really like X-23, still sad Its getting canned after-hours only 21 issues. Also enjoy the new Wolverine & and the x-men book.

@hyp: I agree to a point. But one could argue that illusion is artistic as well.

P.S. I hate typing on My cellphone, lol.
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Hypeathon



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 986

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:39 pm Reply with quote
Soundmonkey44 wrote:
@hyp: I agree to a point. But one could argue that illusion is artistic as well.

Well that's sort of what I meant. When I said the shows I mentioned successfully gave that illusion of the art beng pretty, I didn't mean it wasn't being artistic. I meant that they were able to convey a complex feel out of the settings through how the lighting and coloring was done, which is a good thing if that's what the production staffs for those shows were aiming for.
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Mike Hazama



Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:08 pm Reply with quote
Soundmonkey wrote:
Personally i disagree abit with the reply on the cartoon/anime thing. I mean yes many U.S./EU toons suffer from being genaric, but is that anyworse then so many anime & manga suffering from the same overused cliche/trope? Not IMO.


Well duh, of course it is. The thing is even using the word generic for anime would be considered super unique and innovated for an American/EU toon. The recent Lagrange got SLAMMED by a critic here in his preview guide, but you can't honestly say it's still not better and more unique than anything the US is making or has ever made. It takes more risks than any of those Batman/Avatar/Thundercats cartoons that the guy mentions. Stuff here just doesn't even compare to anime. I doubt US animation can pick up the slack for any anime market leaving the US.. they can't even measure up to a, as that guy put it, a "Zzzz/5" anime. And let's face it, people might cite Batman/Avatar/Thundercats as being their childhood favorites or whatever.. but they're not really popular at all in the grand scheme of things. They ain't no Dragonball Z or Pokemon. Even in the US they're really niche and obscure.
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EireformContinent



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 977
Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:35 pm Reply with quote
And you give DBZ and Pokemon as opposition to being their childhood favourites?
Popularity of anime is a common delusion when we judge all people just by fandom. All those speaking about "popularity of anime" are asked for statistics that will clearly compare popularity of USA?European/Japanese cartoons.
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