Forum - View topicNaruto Theory (spoilers from Ch. 431 and before!!)
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HoshiSama
 Posts: 3 |
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Ok, so, I know I said spoilers in the subject, but just in case...
spoiler[So, for a while now I've been wondering about Tobi and who he really is. Personally, I don't think it's possible for him to really be Uchiha Marada. As far as this series has show us thus far, immortality is unattainable. Plus, history pretty clearly states that the 1st Hokage killed him at least 100 years ago. That being said, it's at least as likely that he's Uchiha Obito as that he's Marada. The only evidence for that, of course, is that he only ever shows his right eye, and we all know Obito gave his left to Kakashi. So, considering that I can't really get behind either of those theories (which are the only two I think are even worth considering) I was looking around online when it hit me. In this last couple of chapters we've learned for sure that all six of Pain's bodies aren't really Pain. Which leads me to the conclusion that the one controlling the six Pain's is Tobi...therefore, Nagato. Let me know what you think! And if you have any pros or cons that would be sweet! Thanks!] |
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Emerje
 Posts: 7549 Location: Maine |
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That's not really true. It would seem that Hidan is 100% immortal due to his religious practices, he's still "alive" just in a lot of little pieces under a ton of rock and dirt. To a lesser extent, through the use of jutsu, Orochimaru (body snatching), Sasori (living puppet), and Kakuzu (heart transplants) all are capable of immortality as long as they can sustain their jutsu. Kakuzu himself is as old or older than Madara would be since he also fought the first Hokage.
Er, not likely considering we've seen the two carry on conversations together and I'm doubtful that Tobi/Madara talks to himself. I'm still open to the idea that Madara has possessed the body of Obito. It wouldn't take much more than some sort of variation on the Yamanaka mind techniques or the original version of Orochimaru's transfer technique (Oro joined Akatsuki to learn new jutsu and I have no doubt that he knew many of the members' secrets). However, I'm kinda hoping we're just fallowing false trails and that the truth is something nobody has considered. Emerje |
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HoshiSama
Posts: 3 |
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haha. yeah, i guess that's true. though most of those examples i just think of as postponing the inevitable.
i don't know if i'd really count the examples of tobi and pain interacting as 'talking' though. all he's really ever seen doing is giving him orders. but thanks for the input!! 
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2094 |
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Actually, Emerje, it would be appropriate to say that TRUE immortality is impossible to attain in the Narutoverse. The databook confirmed that Hidan eventually passed away, because his immortality was sustained because of the sacrifices he made. Orochimaru, Sasori, and Kakuza had to do certain things in order to keep themselves alive. Madara appears to be the only "true" immortal around, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's revealed that even he requires something (probably something to do with the tailed beasts, I suspect).
And I'm very anti-Tobi= Obito, simply because of the massive amount of explanation that will be needed if it is revealed (how did they even know where Obito was, consider how he died, and avoid the 4th Hokage's (a master at detecting the enemy) notice? Why such a weak Uchiha when there was a much better selection after Itachi was done? Isn't the idea that Kisame considered someone as young as Obito (think he would be in his early 20's by now) had been the Mizukage somewhat silly? Why has there been only one Kakashi/Tobi moment, and a brief one at that? (more of Kakashi being shocked at seeing another Uchiha), etc.) Not trying to pick on you, just stating my stance. |
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Emerje
Posts: 7549 Location: Maine |
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Source books, I always forget to check those and people don't reference them enough... Still though, I'd consider these characters quasi-immortal, I suppose science would consider them "biologically immortal" since they've stopped aging but can still be killed.
As for Tobi = Obito, like I said, I'm hopeful that we're following bread crumbs into a brick wall. I want the truth to be something that we haven't considered already. But, some of your points can be explained. First off you've got a Leaf team made up of an Uchiha, the son of the Konoha White Fang, and the future Hokage, a team worth Madara watching. Madara himself said that only Itachi was able to sense his presence and seek him out so it's not entirely far fetched for the Fourth to not detect him, this is in a village loaded with tracking and searching clans no less. Obito's body was never recovered so it's possible that it was taken from the mountain without anyone knowing. If I'm correct that Madara is using a transfer jutsu and that Orochimaru used it as a basis for his own then it's also possible that Madara suffers the same draw backs and limitations including a time limit between hosts and a need to change hosts regularly, perhaps even more so if Oro improved on it at all. Considering how Madara is keeping his presence hidden then it would make sense for the body he chooses to be one that wouldn't be missed, not one that couldn't be counted for. Also, when Itachi goes to Madara he's already wearing the one-eyed mask which, if the theory holds, would indicate that he's already in a new body and wouldn't need a new one. I don't see how a young Mizukaga would be so silly when we've currently got a 15 year old Kazekage. So far nothing at all has indicated that Madara lost an eye of his own so why wear that one-eyed mask if he had both? There's still a lot of ways that this argument can go in either direction. Of all of the theories of who Madara is, from old theories like Kakashi's father and the Fourth Hokage, to recent ones like Danzu, this is the one that's remained the most persistent. Emerje |
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doctordoom85
Posts: 2094 |
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Actually, I have one more counter-point: Obito's body was probably recovered, since we see Obito's goggles on his grave, yet we can safely assume Obito had them on his person when he died (he was never seen giving them to Kakashi, and why would he to begin with?). This also means Madara would have had to infiltrate Konoha to get the job done, and that seems unlikely.
I assumed Madara wearing the mask was also a precaution to protect his identity (he does have a huge statue giving away his appearance, after all). As for only having one eye-hole, I see this as a pre-caution measure, so the enemy (or Akatsuki not "in the loop") would be less likely to notice if he needs to use the Sharingan. As for tracking the 4th's team, that's feasible, but not in the battlefield where they're likely to be noticed considering how many people would be around. Seems too risky to me, and they couldn't have known Obito would die then. I believe that the Mizukage who started the "kill all other students" Battle-Royale academy test was Madara, as well as the order to kill all those with bloodline traits (Madara might be fearing another threat like Senju). I would think Kisame would make some subtle hint about the fact that a teenager was responsible for all that (and retiring so early, since future translations confirmed Kisame said Madara was the former Mizukage). Also, the idea of his immortality working like Orochimaru's seems like weak writing to me, I'd rather see something new. Just because a theory is persistent doesn't add validity to it. Lest we forget those silly LOST fans who kept insisting they were in purgatory, even after the Season 2 finale should have silenced them. |
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guet
 Posts: 492 Location: Sparta |
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Another flaw with the Obito idea is that now that spoiler[Kakashi] is dead, it seems unlikely that any kind of drama would come up because of Obito being the one in the mask. Unless somehow Ren shows up and becomes involved with what is going on, I doubt many major players in the village even know who Obito was. I find the Madara/Tobi scenario much more plausible.
I think there is some kind of connection between Pain and the 4th myself, there has to be something come up that forces Naruto to learn about his parents eventually. |
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doctordoom85
Posts: 2094 |
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Actually, that's a reason I think Tobi=Obito might lost even more plausibility, the possibility that the new female Pain body could be Rin. She's the only female body so naturally that grabs out attention (aside from her and "Yahiko" Pain, none of the bodies really stand out in terms of appearance IMHO), her body was focused on in a flashback in a chapter that ended with Kaksahi mentioning Rin and Obito, her dying before wouldn't hurt the theory since that's apparently how Pain gains bodies to use, since Jiraiya apparently met all of the Pain bodies at some point then she would definitely qualify since I would assume Jiraiya had met all of the 4th's students, etc. It's still quite in the "we know too little" territory to decide if the theory is truly feasible, but it's definitely being discussed amongst the fanbase. And I doubt Kishi would bring BOTH Obito and Rin back, that would just be pushing it. |
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Emerje
Posts: 7549 Location: Maine |
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He wasn't wearing them when he died so it wouldn't have been hard for Kakashi to just pick them up off the ground hold onto them as a memento. Heck, who's to say they're the same pair he wore into battle, Kakashi could have just grabbed a second pair from his home for the memorial. Obito's body was buried in the mountain and I'm sure that's where they left it. Being a war time period they wouldn't have had the resources to send a squad out to dig up a body.
However, he doesn't look like Madara, he looks like the Mizukage. Also he was wearing the mask seemingly before Akatsuki was formed. He was also seemingly living alone in a cave and if anyone did happen to catch his face I'm sure he wasn't hesitate to kill them which leads me to believe he wore the mask simply for his own benefit, probably because he no longer looked like himself. Whey where a one-eyed mask for his own benefit if he had both eyes? Why even where a one-eyed mask in the first place if has both eyes, who's going to care one way or another? Even when he took his mask off to talk to Sasuke he continued to cover the left side of his face, why would he do that?
Actually, heightened activity seems like the best cover to me. Not only could he blend in with the environment, but he happened to be detected he could just fade into the presence of the enemy already out there. And just because he couldn't have known that Obito would die doesn't mean he wouldn't take the opportunity when it arose.
If we assume he wasn't the one that gave rise to the "Blood Mist", I don't really see how that changes anything. First as the leader of the village his age would have been common knowledge so Kisame wouldn't have had any reason to bring it up. In fact I think it works better if he's younger since someone young would have been able to be "raised" in the village before being given the opportunity to become Mizukage, while someone older would have probably been considered an outsider and never given the chance, probably wouldn't have even been allowed in. Plus I'm not entirely sure there's enough time in the timeline. Also we don't know what caused him to stop being the Mizukage. Seeing as how we know of one attempt to overthrow the village with Zabuza (against the current Mizukage) it's possible that he just faked his death.
I disagree. The way I see it, it adds more merit to Orochimaru's claim that he wants to learn all jutsu, and likely a forbidden one on top of that, just adapted into his snake theme. As it is we know he was able to adapt Jugo's ability into a snakebite curse, so how would adapting the body swapping be any different?
Well, I won't deny that people will often just read what they want to into something, even against hard facts, but I still believe the Obito theory to be much to persistent to completely ignore. However, as I've said before, that doesn't mean I actually want it to be true. Emerje |
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