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REVIEW: DearS GN 1


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Nagisa
Moderator


Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 6128
Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:35 am Reply with quote
The review wrote:
It's baffling why there are so many incompetent teacher figures in manga and anime, like the floozy from Mahoromatic, or the nutjob from Azumanga Daioh.


Aw c'mon. You know you love Yukari. Smile

Oh, found a typo:

The review wrote:
Either Japan is full of teachers so dominated by stress that they’ve become basket cases, or the entry country is filled with men who dream of dry humping their high school instructors.


Entry = entire?
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Izlude



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 323
Location: Wherever The Wind Takes Me
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:38 am Reply with quote
I don't understand the problem with the sound effects being un-translated really, does anyone ever really pay attention to the sound fx in manga? I don't even pay attention to them when they are translated >_>

They are just there to look cool, yeah that's it. Although for every 1 person that doesnt like un-translated sound effects, there are like 10 more that dont like translated ones Anime hyper
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radicaledward



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 776
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:28 am Reply with quote
Just want to clear something up here (since the reviewer spent two paragraphs ranting about it), but the whole English teacher to Spanish teacher, and the way it was translated makes perfect sense.

While English is taught in Japan it is by no means a language that most people know fluently enough to be able to understand every bit of English that they come across, and there for some people would get the secondary joke about the teachers libido, and others would not so it is bit of an in joke. Likewise the same is true in the United States - Spanish is the most commonly taught foreign language (I myself had two years in grade school, one year in middle school, and two years in high school) and therefore if you are trying to carry the same joke to the English translation, it makes sense to pick the language that someone will most likely understand. As such, some people would get the joke, and some would not, an appropriate carry over of the original Japanese work.

Not sure why the reviewer was annoyed by the un-translated sound effects - for most people not having them translated is a preferred way of having the manga translated. I personally prefer them to be un-translated as it can sometimes interfere with the art if they are fully translated (e.g. replaced), and can make a panel too busy if there is the English equitant placed under them.

Finely, in regards to the master/slave aspect of the story. It begins to make more sense the further you get into the series, in the first volume it throws just about everyone for a loop.
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ANN_Bamboo
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Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:29 pm Reply with quote
radicaledward wrote:
Just want to clear something up here (since the reviewer spent two paragraphs ranting about it), but the whole English teacher to Spanish teacher, and the way it was translated makes perfect sense.

While English is taught in Japan it is by no means a language that most people know fluently enough to be able to understand every bit of English that they come across, and there for some people would get the secondary joke about the teachers libido, and others would not so it is bit of an in joke. Likewise the same is true in the United States - Spanish is the most commonly taught foreign language (I myself had two years in grade school, one year in middle school, and two years in high school) and therefore if you are trying to carry the same joke to the English translation, it makes sense to pick the language that someone will most likely understand. As such, some people would get the joke, and some would not, an appropriate carry over of the original Japanese work.


It doesn't carry over if it's completely inconsistent. Everyone in the manga is speaking Japanese (or at least that's what all the dialogue is pointing to). So why would they be learning Spanish, when most likely they are taking English classes? It's very common for Japanese students to be taking English-- bloody rare for them to be taking Spanish. Why even bother trying to carry over this nuance? Why is it even necessary? I'd prefer to lose some of that joke than to have them randomly make an English teacher a Spanish teacher for shits and giggles.
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Seanb
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Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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Location: RI, but Colorado is still home
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:40 pm Reply with quote
radicaledward wrote:
Just want to clear something up here (since the reviewer spent two paragraphs ranting about it), but the whole English teacher to Spanish teacher, and the way it was translated makes perfect sense.

While English is taught in Japan it is by no means a language that most people know fluently enough to be able to understand every bit of English that they come across, and there for some people would get the secondary joke about the teachers libido, and others would not so it is bit of an in joke. Likewise the same is true in the United States - Spanish is the most commonly taught foreign language (I myself had two years in grade school, one year in middle school, and two years in high school) and therefore if you are trying to carry the same joke to the English translation, it makes sense to pick the language that someone will most likely understand. As such, some people would get the joke, and some would not, an appropriate carry over of the original Japanese work.


I'm with Bamboo on this one. They need to be consistent about it. The manga is taking place in Japan, therefore they might as well stick to what Japanese students are most likely to be reading. If I remember right, ADV tried to do this with the Azumanga books, and ended up backpedalling on that for later volumes, so I'm inclined to think that more people would prefer to not see that kind of change.

Furthermore, this is supposed to be part of Tokyopop's "100% Manga" line. I thought these books were supposed to be free of this kind of change.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:56 pm Reply with quote
SakechanBD wrote:

It doesn't carry over if it's completely inconsistent. Everyone in the manga is speaking Japanese (or at least that's what all the dialogue is pointing to). So why would they be learning Spanish, when most likely they are taking English classes?

The same could be said about using accents in anime. Why is an Osakan dialect oft portrayed as a southern accent, when that specific type of accent doesn't exist in Japanese? Because even though we are aware that they are speaking "in" Japanese, something must be done to differentiate the languages and dialects. I'm reminded of 2 distinct series when I think of this. The first being ROD the TV, when they are in English class. (It should be noted that although I have the DVDs, I so far have only watched the fansubs). The teacher breaks into the strangest portrayal of the English language I have ever heard. (in a downright scary voice). I can imagine most Japanese kids watching that and having little clue what the teacher was saying. So why not incorporate that into the English version? The other series I'm reminded of is WHR. For Robin, Japanese is her second language, and she still has some learning to do. As a result, she misses out on quite a few things, mostly quirky little sayings. In the English version everyone speaks English perfectly, and so the lines where she gets confused make little sense.

Sure, we can argue Spanish isn't the best choice, but since everyone is speaking in English ("in" Japanese) anyway, it wouldn't make much sense for them to take English lessons. But that's just my 2 cents.

Personally, it doesn't really matter to me which way they did it, as I'm not about to have some strange idea that Japanese students would really be taking Spanish, and I can also keep straight that they are speaking Japanese and taking English. But we both know that there are some that would get confused, and that's who gets aimed for.

Seanb wrote:

Furthermore, this is supposed to be part of Tokyopop's "100% Manga" line. I thought these books were supposed to be free of this kind of change.


This is the only specific info I could find on what "100% authentic manga" means:

"Tokyopop publishes their manga titles with the catch-phrase '100% authentic manga,' meaning that they publish them in the United States the same way that they are published in Japan. They are read from right-to-left, which sounds confusing, but Tokyopop includes a chart (in the back, where "page one" would be in a left-to-right book) to help you figure it out."
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Patachu
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:37 pm Reply with quote
Izlude wrote:
I don't understand the problem with the sound effects being un-translated really, does anyone ever really pay attention to the sound fx in manga?


I do.

I know enough kana to read untranslated sound effects, but it makes me feel bad for English-speaking readers who are missing out on the audio portion of the manga because some lazy butt felt that translation only needed to go as far as what's in the bubbles.

Quote:
They are just there to look cool, yeah that's it.


Wrong. Sound effects are an essential part of comics -- Japanese or otherwise -- and if the manga-ka put them there, it's for a damn good reason, not just to "look cool." A lot of times the sound effect clarifies or enhances an action or emotion in the panel.

Quote:
Although for every 1 person that doesnt like un-translated sound effects, there are like 10 more that don't like translated ones Anime hyper


Ways of handling sound effects, in order from my favorite to least favorite:

1. Put translations in small font next to the actual effect (leaves original artwork alone, but still makes it understandable)
2. Replace with English sound effect in a similar art style (makes it understandable, but interferes with the art. They've been getting better though)
3. Leave them alone (that's just lazy.)

I remember Tokyopop used to do (1), but switched to (3), because apparently it's more important for them to throw 80% half-assed manga on the shelves than to do a good job creating their product.

If you think sound effects aren't an important part of manga and just skip over them, you aren't really reading manga.
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Advent_Nebula



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
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Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:04 am Reply with quote
The DearS manga is way beter than the Anime.

Last edited by Advent_Nebula on Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
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Location: Online Terminal
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:13 am Reply with quote
*hugs Sakechan, because it sounds like she needs one*

You know, all things considered, it probably was for the best that they leave the Spanish untranslated. Rolling Eyes

I guess the "smart" thing to do would have been to make it a generic "foreign language" class and put the English version in <>'s just like they use in every webcomic known to man.

I still think Miu and Nia are cuter.
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biliano



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
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Location: Cleveland, OH
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:35 pm Reply with quote
Peach-Pit obviously knows how to draw; now all they need to do is know how to conduct themselves professionally in interviews, right? Wink
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radicaledward



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 776
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:20 pm Reply with quote
Joe Mello wrote:
You know, all things considered, it probably was for the best that they leave the Spanish untranslated. Rolling Eyes

I guess the "smart" thing to do would have been to make it a generic "foreign language" class and put the English version in <>'s just like they use in every webcomic known to man.
Except if they did that then they couldn't leave it untranslated, no?
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Joe Mello



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:06 pm Reply with quote
That was two different streams of thought. The first being "zomg, this stuff is so bad, we shouldn't let our kiddies read it, so we'll leave it untranslated." The second stream was taken directly from stuff like Megatokyo and the old Animorphs series of books.
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Phantom14



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 86
Location: USA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:41 am Reply with quote
Damm, Bamboo realy hammered down on Dears.
I actualy thought it was a very good manga.
I do have to agree, that even though I know spanish, I do wish there would have been translations for it, and the sound affects also.
Other than that, I thought it was a pretty good manga.
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championferret



Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 765
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:42 am Reply with quote
I agree with this review to some extent, but I was one of the people more on the side of how much of a blatant Chobits ripoff DearS is. However I'm also one of the few optomists that it will get better as it progressed as it is only the first volume.
For my other thoughts:

Quote:
I know enough kana to read untranslated sound effects, but it makes me feel bad for English-speaking readers who are missing out on the audio portion of the manga because some lazy butt felt that translation only needed to go as far as what's in the bubbles.


Not to sound like a jerk, but I really hate this attitude of 'like omg we cant read the freaky foreign sound effects!'
If its a big-ass sound effect, it's a big-ass noise. If its little, it's a small sound. The way the kana SFX is DRAWN respresents the sound alot more than what it actually says.
I absolutley can not STAND manga having the SFX redone in english; it's reason enough for me to not buy the english release and find the japanese version instead.
VIZ do a downright horrible job with their ugly sound effects that look as if they've come out of a Donald Duck comic strip, and I'm not being biased just because I can read kana, because I dont know any Korean whastsoever and I dont feel the slightest bit alienated by the Korean sound effects in manwha.
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biliano



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 956
Location: Cleveland, OH
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:18 am Reply with quote
championferret wrote:
I agree with this review to some extent, but I was one of the people more on the side of how much of a blatant Chobits ripoff DearS is. However I'm also one of the few optomists that it will get better as it progressed as it is only the first volume.


Well, from what I've read so far, I think that DearS does get better once you start reading Volume 2 when they introduce Miu and the plotlines start to develop. I've read the first three volumes of DearS at this point in time, and from what I've read, Peach-Pit is doing a fair job in handling the emotions of the characters, most especially in Volume 3 spoiler[when Miu reveals to Takeya the true origin of the DearS and why they can't return home.]

I thought that Bamboo gave a fair assessment to this volume of DearS. I didn't think that she hammered the book as much as it might have been implied (or else she would have given it lower grades); but I do agree with much of what she wrote in her review.
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