Forum - View topicIs the word "yaoi" obsolete (or should it be)?
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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There are two terms that often substitute with yaoi to refer to manga about malexmale romances. Sometimes they are used interchangeably sometimes they are used to specify a certain type of story. Those two terms are Shonen-ai and Boys Love.
Shonen-ai however, is commonly used as something decidedly separate from what is grouped as yaoi or boys love. But why the indecisiveness in which term should be the official label of a certain genre? Anyone can have a preference for what they call something, but I think yaoi (despite the confusion in how it's pronounced) is used primarily by those outside the circle of those who appreciate it. Oh and I'm asking as a noob on this subject because I don't pay (enough) attention to the genre much. It just seems, to me, like the word "yaoi" has somewhat of a contemptuous aspect to it. Last edited by P€|\||§_|\/|ast@ on Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Yaoi isn't obsolete as it tends to be the more carnal/sensual side (and the largest part of the BL industry). But shounen-ai, well, yeah. That's pretty obsolete. Now it's just BL for the most part from what I understand.
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Killaclown666
 Posts: 48 |
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little confused seeing as im drunk, but i dont see the term yaoi as obsolete, i never heard of the other ones you mentioned and i see myself as more than a casual anime viewer (being a part of this forum is kinda proof, btw this isnt the first name I've been under) also a broad generalisation is appreciated to those of us that want nothing to do with yaoi
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Annf
Posts: 578 |
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For reference, the usage in Japanese is:
Of course, English usage isn't defined by Japanese usage. |
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killmyself
 Posts: 168 |
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Shounen ai means boys love just as Shoujo ai means girls love they are the same terms it is just a matter of labeling preference by the respective markets. BL just seems to have caught on more as a term than GL that is all. It is more of a catchall term also as yuri seems to be what the more softcore lesbian stuff is labeled as for the most part so there is more separation in that genre with labels. I don't know enough about the ratios in gay male comics to know whether or not a second term is necessary rather than the previously mentioned tags of adult and whatnot.
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Polycell
 Posts: 4623 |
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Actually, it seems to me that what slack 'shoujo-ai' left was taken up by 'yuri' in English(which matches the Japanese usage AFAICT). But then, I haven't ever really seen that or 'shonen-ai' in use, so I don't know whether it's just where I'm looking or whether the terms have genuinely fallen out of disuse.
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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The usage I've always heard is pretty much what Megiddo said. Yaoi/yuri cover the explicit titles, shouen-ai/BL/shoujo-ai are your PG-13 rated stuff and below. Of the terms, I'd definitely agree that shounen-ai/shoujo-ai are the ones that seem to be falling out of use (with BL replacing shounen-ai and it seems that yuri has been taking over to mean everything, explicit or not).
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 19175 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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The way marie-antoinette laid it out is the way the terms most commonly seem to be used outside of Japan. I've barely heard "shonen ai" used in the past 2-3 years (and it's apparently been an out-of-date term in Japan for much longer than that), so BL seems to have completely usurped its role. "Shojo ai," OTOH, never really caught on in the West. "Yaoi" and "yuri" are definitely still in wide use, though; I occasionally check out hentai manga sites, and none of them tag true homoerotic content as BL.
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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I guess that it depends on where in the West you are looking. "Shoujo ai" has been used regularly for years in some other forums that I frequent, along with "yuri". "Shoujo ai" is used for relationships between girls that are not sexual and "yuri" is used for relationships that are sexual. Yuri does not have to be hentai. There only needs to be a clear indication that a relationship is sexual even if no sex is actually shown. To give an indication of how they are applied to anime Maria Watches Over Us would be shoujo ai and the very similar Strawberry Panic would be yuri. Of course there are always exceptions and disagreements about usage. Unfortunately I do not know if the usage is similar for "shounen ai" and "yaoi" because I tend to avoid discussions that are specifically about those. But I do get the impression that "BL" is replacing both of those. As far as I know none of these terms have an "official" definition, at least not in the West, so usage varies from place to place, and even from person to person in the same place. I have seen some rather intense flame wars started because people who were actually agreeing with each other were using different definitions. The same can be said for several other terms that are used by anime and manga fans. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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I never realized shonen-ai has fallen so out of use. Yeah I guess because we in the west like trendy Japanese words as labels for things that are distinctly Japanese, yaoi will pretty much stick, and because it's a shorter word. To English speakers, Boys Love can seem kind of wonky and I think its pretty much reserved in Japan because only there does it retain it's trendyness as terminology for something. This is probably why BL is a pretty common acronym, it avoids the ambiguity that the words "boys love" can connotate.
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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The way I've used them is this:
Shounen-Ai: Innocent, no overt sexuality. Some cute kisses, and the like, but nothing super-sexual. Generally focuses on being cute. Yaoi: Overt sexuality. Intimate and passionate near-sex at least. Generally focuses on being hot/sexy. BL: Catch-All term for the two things above. BL is a genre, Shōnen-Ai and Yaoi are subgenres. This is how I organize any BL stories I write. |
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Mits
Posts: 54 |
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I can’t agree with Annf’s post concerning the usage in Japan. In my impression, the usage in Japan is this:
BL: The widest term of male homosexual romance aimed at female readers. But if this word was used contrast to Yaoi, then BL means original and commercial works. Yaoi: Usually, this is only used for parody dojin works. Shonen-ai: This is almost obsolete as a term of male homosexual romance, and just means pederasty nowadays. Though, this is the origin of the word BL (just literally transferred to the English words). |
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Annf
Posts: 578 |
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Ah, yeah, I stand corrected. Within the BL doujin world, yaoi is used for parody works. Outside the BL doujin world, you have people like me thinking no one uses the word anymore, haha. |
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hyojodoji
Posts: 586 |
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Yaoi: Since yaoi was developed in the anime/manga dōjinshi scene, the term still has an argot-like/semi-underground/dōjinshi-ish feel to some extent.
Though some people may use it as a catch-all term, it tends to mean female-oriented male homoerotic/homoromantic works of which materials are based on existing manga, anime, video games and the like. Yonezawa Yoshihiro, who was president of the Comic Market Preparatory Committee, said that yaoi generally meant male homoerotic parodies by female dōjinshi artists. Still in use. BL: As Boys' Love was devised by commercial publishers, the term has a trying-to-be-'genteel'/-'overground' feel. Although some people may use it as a catch-all term, it tends to mean commercial and original male homoerotic/homoromantic works aimed at female audiences. Takemiya Keiko regarded yaoi as dōjin BL, and she said that yaoi were different from works that were carried in June. Shōnen-ai: A term that is often associated with some shōjo manga dealing with homoerotic/homoromantic male relationships in the 70s and 80s primarily by so-called Year 24 Group such as Kaze to Ki no Uta by Takemiya Keiko. The term has a somewhat bookish feel. Probably it was via works by Inagaki Taruho that manga-related people learnt 'shōnen-ai'. In Patalliro! by Maya Mineo, the protagonist mentioned a Taruho term. Inagaki Taruho wrote:
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Reflecting on the comments in this thread really made me realize some of the implications of what I was trying to convey about the word yaoi. It seems in the west yaoi is a catch-all term and is often applied by outsiders of the genre to refer to fans of it in a demeaning kind of way (ie. "oh look at those yaoi fangirls prolly fantasizing about some Naruto man orgy").
No one does that with the words boys love. I think just how yaoi represents parody works and online fanzines of an erotic nature it should retain the distinction of being that only. We in the west should mirror the usage in Japan so it removes the stigmatics that result from being associated with something that may be looked down upon by other fans of the artform. The majority of published homoerotic manga in the west consist of original works and I think generally that should make the word yaoi largely unecessary in everyday usage, since it's not yaoi. |
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