Forum - View topicAre AMVs Illegal?
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Case
Posts: 1016 |
|
|||||
|
The doujinshi thread has prompted me to ask a question that I've always wondered about, but never actually asked for fear of some terrible fallout.
Here goes. Are anime music videos - the ones made by fans that they show at conventions and so forth - completely legal? It seems to be that they should be (maybe even two-fold, if you use unlicensed music too?), since there are so many of them and I know that all of them can't possibly be paying and/or asking permission for all of the footage they use. However, I have to admit that I'm no lawyer. For all I know, that could be covered under Fair Use, because they only use a small portion of the original product or whatever. Anyone know for sure? |
||||||
|
||||||
DaVeDuDe
 Posts: 20 Location: Brooklyn, N.Y. USofA |
|
|||||
|
I don't see why they would be illegal. It's not like people use AMV's for profit. Besides, if doujinshi are legal, then these should definitely be also.
|
||||||
|
||||||
Emerje
 Posts: 7549 Location: Maine |
|
|||||
|
Yes and no. Obviously no one is going to jail over them, but I have heard of people having song issues. They're about as illegal as MP3s and video clips are. I guess someone from the industry could be an ass and stop an AMV contest if they wanted to, but that would be for publicity more that it would be for any sort of effect. It's really a huge gray area there's so many ways it can be argued.
I guess the best way to say it is, yes, they're illegal, but it's not worth it for anyone to try doing anyting effective against it. Emerje |
||||||
|
||||||
Dark Nero
 Posts: 220 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia |
|
|||||
|
yea they are sorta in the same boat as MP3's and such. Yes they are illegal, but who can stop them??
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Tiresias
Posts: 353 Location: Illinois, USA |
|
|||||
That's where some of the problem lies. You can go onto eBay and do a search and find people selling "DVD's" with AMV's on them. I joined up with AnimeMusicVideos.org about a month ago and the big thing on their forum was a guy was selling not only DVD's with 2 eps of Inu Yasha each for $20 but was also selling DVD's with like 15 Inu Yasha AMV's on it for another $20. And a lot of them came from creators who are members with AMV.org and they weren't too happy that someone was profiting off of their hard work. |
||||||
|
||||||
cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
|
|||||
|
techically yes but its another case of why bother going after it would cost more then its worth.
|
||||||
|
||||||
Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10539 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||||
Yes. 1st off, it's illegal to use the music without the copyright holder's permission. 2nd, it's illegal to use the images from the Anime without the permission of the copyright holder. So, since the average AMV violates at least two copyrights, it is illegal. But Anime Companies don't care because 1) The AMV Promotes their title 2) The AMV doesn't undercut their title. (No one considers an AMV a replacement for a show) Therefore, unless the content is questionable, the AMVs are not only harmless but benign. The record companies are a bit of a different issue. Theoretically they are losing out on a licensing fee. It's standard practice to pay a license to use music in a movie/show/video, and the companies do enforce this. But AMVs are so small that it really isn't worth their time, they have bigger fish to fry. AMV's are also a fan-activity, so there isn't a lot of money involved, companies do tend to be a bit more aggressive when others are profiting off of their copyrights. But it isn't inconceivable that animemusicvideos.com may one day get a letter from the RIAA. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
|
|||||
|
Well, they're not illegal, but for them NOT to be illegal they need to conform to two standards:
This isn't a problem if you have permission to use the music, or if you create the music yourself (which has been done before). I'm not sure where remixes of songs fit, but at Otakon 1999 there was a guy who said he did his own remix of a song specifically for the music video.. I know 'cause I was sitting right behind him. :p Also, one could use public domain works, like any major classical work, or music prior to (er... 1971, i think?) that didn't have its copyright renewed.
If you use a lot of different clips from a lot of different series, it could theoretically fall under fair use laws. OTOH, for 3-4 minutes. There's no exact definition of 'fair use', but once again, 10% or 30 seconds (whichever is less) seems reasonable. Additionally, at least one video was made entirely out of fan-art that the AMV creator drew, and I recall at least one by Big Big Truck that used some drawings too.. Those have a stronger case of 'fair use', and thus 'legality' than others that borrow 5 minute clips uncut from the original anime with a song over top of it.
I know in a few instances cease and desist letters have been mailed to prevent Harry Potter fics from going around the net (and probably others)... but AFAIK they've never gone further than that. As such, I think AMV.com will be safe for a lot longer. |
||||||
|
||||||
radicaledward
 Posts: 776 |
|
|||||
The RIAA would have a hard time with a cease and desist if they sent one to AMV.org because of the nature of the site. If AMV.org member were using just American music, they could target the entire site claiming it to be another "Hot bed of music priacy. But becuase the members use international music the RIAA's claims get stickier and they would have a hard time with such a letter unless they named all of the the files that they wanted removed. In terms of the video clips themselfs - I agree with Cookie. The average AMV is about 3-4 minutes, and fiar use laws say that you can use 10% of the total material for screening purposes. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10539 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||||
I did say most, didn't I? I know there are exceptions. But the majority of the AMVs that I've seen used copyrighted American music.
Under what grounds? Are AMV's news? Are they Educational? Are they reviews or such? The US copyright states that something is fair use based on a number of criteria, ammount used is only one of them. AMVs are being made for purely entertainment purposes, and as such they are not "fair use." Although it could be possible for someone to argue that they are a "review," no judge would accept that arguement.
The RIAA could just send a letter demanding that AMV.org "cease and desist distribution of RIAA member music." They don't have to be the only people "wronged" in oder to file a complaint, and they need not tell AMV.org exactly which titles to pull (although it is usually best to do that). As I said, I would think that AMV.org is safe as well.They aren't worth the RIAA's time. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
nagash
Posts: 280 |
|
|||||
|
Not to mention that even the anime companies themselves are making an occassional AMV to promote the anime. If you were at AB during closing ceremonies then you got to see an AMV for Witch Hunter Robin that was made by whoever picked up its license.
I think if it stays low-key then it won't be a problem. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
|
|||||
It should be noted that this is the reason why most "fair use" cases go to court -- because it wasn't apparent to the copyright holder that the use was 'fair'. Looking at it from an outside perspective, sometimes it's hard for us to tell either. That's why we HAVE the legal system. Anyway, there are 4 legal criteria to determine if something being used is really "fair use": (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; The character of use is a non-profit, perhaps educational domain (one could cite the production time involved as a form of education). It could also be considred artistic in nature. Additionally, the nature of the video changes if one includes their own personal affects (pop-up bubbles, personal fan-art, etc) Both the video and audio, I would believe, meet this criteria. (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; It would probably have a difficult time justifying this, as the nature of the works used (audio, video) BOTH are for entertainment purposes... just as the AMV is. HOWEVER, neither the video nor the audio are being served in the original manner as originally presented. In that, I mean that the original audio of the anime has been replaced. Looking at it from the other way, audio now includes a different "video track" that accompanies it. (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and Even with 20-30 minute OVAs, a small clip (30s or less) is only a fraction of the whole. The video, even if it's short clips from numerous series, easily passes this test. The only possible detractants are if the clips are from a single episode, or the clip is a single uncut shot. Now, contrary to what radicaledward said, "fair use" law does NOT say "10%" is fair use. In some cases it may be found that even 1% is not "fair use" if there are compelling circumstances against it. ... it may be hard to justify the use of a full song, but I could see it being possible. OTOH, I think precident of certain artistic cases (I recall one where an artist used a photograph of another's work in his own, and was successfully sued to remove the photograph) may find the use of the song troublesome. OTOH again, I recall other cases where the artist was allowed to keep his production untouched. It could still go either way, but precident does tend to side against fully copying things, even for artistic intent. (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. Earlier you said: But Anime Companies don't care because 2) The AMV doesn't undercut their title. (No one considers an AMV a replacement for a show) Given the bulky inclusion of the video, I doubt most people "listen" to their AMVs for sole purpose of listening to the audio, which DOES raise issues with the audio side of things. ... It could go either way. I'd have to look up specific court cases to get a better grasp on these "middle-of-the-road" problems, where half of the production is clearly "fair use", and half is not. I think it fully meets two of the criteria (1 and 4) and at least partially meets another (3). The only problem is that it would be hard to cite it as non-entertainment, or else prove that the anime/music used were not originally for entertainment purposes. Even with limited support, it is possible for an AMV to be considered 'fair use'. And, naturally, most of the problems occur because of the licensed music. Using public domain music would clearly let the AMV pass the 3rd criterion and give it more support for the 2nd. Adding your own work in some fashion could help in some cases. Not using a complete song would strengthen #3 (ie, making a 2 minute mix of a 4 minute song; 10% is a suggestion, there is no legal document saying "It must be less than 10%") Given the above criteria, I think at least some AMVs would have a difficult time being considered "fair use".. how many? Got me, I typically only watch them at conventions. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
radicaledward
Posts: 776 |
|
|||||
I want to interject one more point for the potential market value: a good AMV has the potenital to incress the interest in the anime. In my case there are several animes that I orginaly checked out because I saw an AMV of them (ex. FLCL, Kite, Vamipre Hunter D:Bloodlust), and odds are I am not the only person that has been influenced in such a way. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10539 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||||
Thing is, it has to meet all 4. Entertainment just doesn't cut it, ever. Precedents have shown that a 1 second clip from a movie used in another movie is not fair use. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
|
|||||
Nah. AFAIK only negative effects are considered. OTOH, if there's an obvious positive effect, then there should be less of a reason for the suit to be brought against the maker in the first place.
Is there precident for a non-profit entertainment production using a movie clip and being successfully denied fair use? |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group