Forum - View topicDubbed and Subbed
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Tyman
Posts: 4 |
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I always used to hear when I was younger that I wasn't a real anime fan because most of the time I like it in English. The funny thing is I still get this comment, Im I mostly alone in this? I totally understand why people like anime in japanese, I mean thats the way it was suppossed to be, but some anime like Neon Genesis Evangelion, Gungrave, and FMA I like in dubbed.
What do you guys think about dubbed verus subbed? P.S. I know I must be the 100th guy to ask this, sorry |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 19175 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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(The "dubbed vs. subbed" business has been done to death in these forums, so let's not get a new thread started about that. There are plenty of old ones to check out, so if anyone else replies please keep to Tyman's main point.)
To answer your original question, it depends entirely on who you talk to. It sounds like most of the anime fans you've associated with so far are extremists out of a crowd generally called "purists" - so named because they feel that staying absolutely true to the original version is the overriding factor for appreciating anime. To purists non-Japanese dubs rarely or never match up to the original and even slight alterations (such as dropping Japanese honorifics on names or substituting rough English equivalents) usually aren't acceptable. Extremists even go as far as saying that you're not a "real" anime fan if you watch stuff dubbed. Fortunately extremists (like your friends) are only a small minority of the overall fan community; even most purists won't say that you're not a true anime fan just because you like dubs. The only important factor in being considered a "true" fan is that you like to watch anime and talk about it. (Now if you're talking about being a "hard-core" fan, that's another story.) |
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Yashouzoid
 Posts: 411 |
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My stance on this is never the same for all dubs, because it's usually based on the situation.
If the script is awkwardly written and the voices are horribly miscasted, then I'll take the Japanese version. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Of course, sometimes it goes in reverse, as well. Personally, I've never been able to stomach more then 5 minutes of Big O in Japanese, because the voices seem so horribly miscast. Roger sounds like the most generic and stereotypical "shounen power hero" in the world, while Schwarzwald sounds like he's in his 80s. The English cast for that series just fits so much better. |
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Sam-I-Am
Posts: 121 Location: Midwest US |
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Some people are sports fans, some of whom go to see games and races in person, and others who prefer to stay home and watch on TV. The TV viewers get to see/hear all the color commentary and behind-the-scenes footage, while the attendees get to see it happen right before their very eyes. Nobody seems to care much which group a particular fan belongs to, they just enjoy the event in their own way.
Sub/dub ought to be more like that, instead of being a basis for namecalling. For various reasons, some people don't care to watch/read subtitles. For various reasons, some people don't like the English dubs. Both sets of reasons can be valid for choosing subs or dubs. Choosing sides is pointless. Most of the purist arguments boil down to 'original is better, because it's original'. This isn't quite a correct reasoning path. Not all anime is created by artistic geniuses. Some, perhaps most, is created by merely capable workmen, and some is made by dolts. Just because the Japanese staff did such-and-such, doesn't mean that those choices were the best possible choices, but were merely the best choices that those people in that situation could come up with. The possibility exists that the dub staff can come up with a better idea, or, more likely, an idea that is better for the culture of the dub company's market. The dub staff can also make worse choices - the range from genius to dolt is the same on both sides of the Pacific. The question I always want to ask a purist is if they themselves are fluent in Japanese. If not, they really can't tell if things are mistranslated, or if the acting is good/bad/sideways. Most of the time, I think a purist reacts against a dub because they saw something on the Internet that they are repeating, or they are reacting to the fact that the dub voices are different. Not good, not bad, but simply different. The last 50 years of pre-recorded entertainment has trained people to think that the Official Studio Version of a song is the only way it should be sung, and that attitude carries over to other forms of performances. Many fans first encounter a series as a fansub, and become used to the Japanese voice, and that sound is set in their minds as the 'proper' sound for that character. I work in live theater, so I'm used to different actors recreating characters made famous by other actors. They rarely try to imitate the famous version, but instead try to make it their own, as they should. A dub actor is doing the exact same thing, taking a role and making it their own. Personally, I tend to watch dubs, unless there's something I really can't stand about a particular dub. That's my choice, and I don't think that it makes me less of a fan in any way. Others prefer strictly subs - that's their choice. Watch what you like, and don't worry about it. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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Despite the number of opinions I see posted on this topic I almost never see anyone posting about the fundamental difference in the production of the audio. In America it is common practice to sit people in recording booths to record there lines for a given series. On the recent Bebop rerelease Wendy Lee mentions how she never had a chance to work with the VA for Spike since all his lines were recorded before hers. I believe this provides a selection of takes that are easily interchangable. I also notice that the English track has a crisper sound to it that often has a better lipsynch than the Japanese track. In Japan it is common practice to gather all the Seiyu in a room where they stand in a line and read out there lines. This creates a more organic sound. One of the recen Galaxy Railways DVDs has an extra with all of the cast members recording the dialogue for an episode. I believe this technique, while more organic, allows fewer takes and relies on everyones schedules to coincide. I believe it is also not unusual to have staff as well as cast present. On the Spirited Away extras DVD there is a point where one of the audio takes is ruined by Miyazaki (who is present at the recording session) laughing in the background. Many of the Seiyu on these shows spend lots of times together and have a certain comradre which I fel is genuine on the Club Escaflowne extras. When I listen to the audio commentary with the English cast they sound a bit more like strangers complimenting each other on there work, instead of buddies teasing each other. There are some American cartoons like Home Movies that are done in the same way the Japanese record Audio (hence the great organic quality of the Home Movies dialogue) but as far as I know almost all English dubbed anime is done in seperate recording booths.
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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I chalk that up to perhaps them trying to be a bit 'too' professional. Given that most VAs work, and have worked, on various other types of acting roles or taken numerous classes, there are indeed a great many of them that are truly friends. These sorts of acting circles are typically not abundantly large, so I would say many have at least seen or hung out with most of the other people they work with. Although it's true they often will not see each other at work. As with anything else though, some people will be more open or get along better then others. Couple that with VAs who have 'home' studios, but have performed in dubs occasionally, and they very well might be strangers with most of the people they talk with. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 19175 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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This isn't just limited to anime dubs, though. Most American-made cartoons are also dubbed that same way (i.e. one person in a studio/booth at a time). Based on what I've seen in various "Behind The Scenes" features, this difference in approach is primarily attributable to American audiences placing a much higher value on accurate lip-synching than Japanese audiences do. (Watch a lot of anime both ways and you'll eventually notice that the English dub, regardless of its high or low performance quality, is often more accurate on lip-synching than the Japanese dub.) The "one VA at a time" approach is much more conducive to accurate lip-synching. |
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Kazuki-san
Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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This is true. It leads to a chicken-and-the-egg scenario though. Are we dubbing according to each of our culture's values on synching, or are our culture's synching values developed from the dubs we produce? |
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Shi-ne
 Posts: 77 Location: Uh? |
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I guess it depends on how well the voice actors do or if it's even available subbed or dubbed . Cowboy Bebop I watch dubbed because the voice actors did a pretty good job. Bubblegum Crisis 2032 is the opposite; that one has a horrible dub. I just can't listen to it....it hurts my hears....gaaahh1!
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Sam-I-Am
Posts: 121 Location: Midwest US |
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The single-person-recording method has uses beyond simply improving lip synch. One of the primary uses is to isolate each take of each line on the audio master, so that the director and audio engineer have maximum flexibility in mixing the final soundtrack. The director can select the girl's first take, the boy's third take, and the demon's fifteenth take, and create the best performance. The audio engineer then has each of them as a separate track that can be adjusted time-wise to start and stop to provide the best flow to the scene, within the bounds of mouth flaps. Most of the digital systems also allow the user to expand and contract a sound clip slightly to better fit the needed length. With each line as a separate entity, it is also possible to process each line independantly, creating an aural space for the words to exist in, such as echos, apparent distance, voice modification, etc.
If all the actors are in the same room, recording together, then everyone's voice can be heard entering everyone else's microphone. It's usually faint, but it can be heard. This cross-contamination can prevent the audio engineer from being able to edit the track. Extraneous noises (such as Miyazaki laughing) are always a problem in a group session, although I have heard some engineers for single booths complain that the mic is also hearing the actor's headphones. Processing can be done, but might have to be done on the fly, and the crosstalk can defeat it. The grand old Disney style was to record the voices first (separately), cut the audio together, and then do the animation timed to the audio. The usual anime method is to do the animation, and then the audio. I think most people are under the impression that the seiyuu work off of the finished art, but on a recent commentary, Greg Ayres mentions that recording voices to the key animation is common (key animation being the step where you have the most important line drawings done, but not the in-betweening or the color), allowing the final art to be adjusted if needed. The dub studios usually don't have the luxury of adjusting the art, and would face the wrath of fans hollering 'butchery' if they did. A group of actors standing around, working off of each other is always going to provide a more lively performance, but at the cost of audio clarity. Single actors in booths generate clean audio, but have to rely on the director to pull the needed performance out of the actor. Either system can work well, and either system can fail. As if the audio method is driven by audience expectations, or if audience expectations drive audio methods, I suspect the question is mostly moot. A large majority of the audience isn't aware of audio issues, acting issues, or much of anything technical at all, unless and until an error is so large it shocks them out of suspension of disbelief. I suspect that most of the time the actors, directors, and engineers are focusing on details for the sake of the craft more than the sake of the audience, doing a good job for the sake of doing a good job, either as simple pride in workmanship, or as trying to impress the people who might hire you next. The difference between the US and Japan might just be how the industries started, US with Disney, and perhaps the Japanese simply didn't have time and equipment to do single voices, so they started with groups, and decided that they liked the dynamics. |
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Yashouzoid
Posts: 411 |
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Exactly. It's entirely situational and I don't know why people are always like "If it's not subbed/dubbed I'm not watching it". |
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SwissMiss
 Posts: 12 |
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I consider myself an Anime fan, and I only watch dubbed anime
Calling someone not a "true" anime fan because he/she does not watch it in its original language, is absurd IMO. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 8017 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I prefer dubbed myself becuse it's a frankly a better experience when you don't have follow both the words and the action with your eyes. Instead you can concentrate on the visuals and the action with your eyes and listen to what's being said as you can comprehend the language. It's more like your actually there with them rather than a spectator sitting home on your butt watching something on TV.
If subbed is the only way I can see it however, I'm totally fine watching it that way too, as long as I can pause it to read the longer strings of dialouge. My eyes aren't that great. |
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Fui
 Posts: 339 |
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Listening to most animes dubbed gives me a headache. The women are almost always have this whiny sound and the guys sound retarded. Samurai Champloo dubbed was hideous. The experience is completely different IMO, and usually the mood is ruined dubbed for me. Then again I'm JP and have an easier time understanding what they're saying.
I agree, I thought FMA was pretty well-done dubbed, but I haven't heard the JP version (adult swim onry). As for Eva, I just didn't like the personalities of Rei or Asuka overall, they're way too exaggerated compared to the manga which does a better job. Rei is too messed up and Asuka is...also too messed up and crazy. Maybe the NA dubbed script is a little different and not-so-exaggerated, and I could see the possibility of the dubbed version being better. To each his own, you should watch whichever version makes the experience better for you. I personally think anime loses part of its anime-ness when it's shown in English...some of the culture is lost and of course some of the play on words/cultural jokes are lost of course, which happens a lot in animes, but if you can't understand it in the first place then what's the point huh. |
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