Forum - View topicViolence with a soul
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opaquescum
Posts: 235 |
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We have all heard it in the media, that people are becomeing desensitized to violence. It really has no emotional impact to it. A few years ago I might have agreed, but recently after watching a few anime series. I actually felt myself become sensitive to violence. I actually found myself fealing sad, angry, disgusted. Needless to say it has had me thinking. Which was probabally the point, but in anime this is atleast new to me. After all we have seen fights where twenty ninjas get decapitated, or some guy got ripped apart. I myself found myself saying oh that was cool.
I suppose the new phenomena is that a few series in anime have gone on to incorporate emotional impact into their violence. Where the viewer can no longer say oh that is cool. I personally coin this victims rights. Where the writers have decided to let the viewer see well the dark side of violence. The victim is being made to be someone or something you can sympathise with. Well when your emotionally attached to the victim when you can empathise with them. Well its human nature to share in the pain. The net result is they context a violent act. That is going to make you abhor the violence they are going to give you a graphic depiction of. To make it all the more powerful sometimes they make the victim helpless, or obviously overmatched. I will give a few descriptions to show what I mean. Elfen Liedspoiler[ This scene actually got me angry. Where the institute has a young diclonus chained to a wall, and they are fireing off a gun at her. To see how fast a target they can deflect. The young girl is begging for them to stop. Pleading not to be shot anymore. They obviously kick the speed up and fire again hitting the helpless girl. Smearing her blood all over the walls.] Gantzspoiler[ This one just left me shocked, and angry. During the first mission for the green onion aliens. The humans hunt down and kill the child green onion alien. The poor thing once again pleads for its life. He is cornored, and systematically murdered.] Gantzspoiler[ This scene actually made me feal guilty. I suppose, because it is a social commentary on social apathy towards the homeless. Anyway the scene is very much a rehashing of the clockwork orange. Two psychopaths beat this poor homeless man to death. Then to send the point home they even show the poor old man do a death rattle.] Anyway both the above series are considered among the most violent anime series. I wonder though does the fact that both series makeing the victims easy to empathise with help in this reguard. Does the fact that many series do not do this make what are basically long kill fist seem not so bad. Anyway I was wondering what everyone else feals about the subject. Do you feal that doing scenes like this makes violence worse, or do you think its the morally right thing to do? Do you think further anime series doing this makes for better anime? Personally I felt better about this type of violence. Even though it caused my some emotional trauma. The more I think about it though the more I also think series need more of these scenes. After all atleast the violence is not meaningless. I mean it can be in the show, but it conveys some meaning to the audience. P.S. Please do not use this thread to flame those series. If there is a series that has a equally valid scene share it. This thread is about a form of violence, and how you feal about it in the context of anime. Those two series just happen to each have a number of those scenes. |
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jaybug39
 Posts: 552 Location: Oregon, Is it FOOTBALL yet? |
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Had to read your post twice.
Let's start with de-sensitization to violence. When was the last time you had to butcher a chicken to have your dinner? Death used to be more a part of life than it is now, by far. To live something had to die. And we lost that when people moved into the big cities, and started having small families. You could go for decades before anyone in your family lost his/her life for any cause. I think people are into violence as a way of keeping some of that past alive, whether or not they even think of that. But too much of portrayed violence is just lousy art. There are some exceptions. You listed at least one, I haven't seen Gantz yet, so I won't say anything about that anime. But E.L. was a terrific series, if you could get past the opening scene. It was tough for me. I do not want to be a doctor for this reason. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066921/ That is a link to A Clockwork Orange on IMDB. The first of the "ultraviolent" movies. And like Elfin Lied, and perhaps moreso, as ACO was nominated for best picture at the Oscars, the violence was a method to telling a story. I hope we don't become immune to violence, not de-sensitized. There was a woman in the 60s who was brutally raped and murdered in NYC and 39 other people heard her screams, and did nothing. That scares me more than the act of violence, the passivity of those not directly involved. |
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Pleroma
 Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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It could be argued that our excessive exposure to violence makes it so all but the most elaborately set up scenes fail to have a significant effect. Lets face it, random bad guys falling to the hero;s sword or mechas blowing up by the dozen contain just as much death as anything else, but it barely even phazes us.
However when the victim of the violence is given a face we can sudenly see ourselves in that position. In our current environment such inevitable and violent death is generally rare and so it has the power horrify us and thus serve the story much better than a milder event. Other examples of this can be found in in small doses in shows like Rahxephon spoiler[(the Dolem are given a face when one of them syncronizes with Ayato's friend and he ends up killing her)] and Evangelion spoiler[(Asuka's suffering in the movie as the production units literally tear her to pieces is quite something)] with great effect so an EL or Gantz - like overload is not really necesary. I would strongly suggest you watch Narutaru for an amazing example of shock through contrast. Nothing feel quite like a show that begins like the most innocent Pokemon ripoff and eventually gets into some of the most brutally horrifying death scenes ever devised. Especially since the intro is designed like some Saturday morning fluff so on later episodes you can go staright from crayon wonderland to staring at the screen in utter desbelief. |
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Space_cowboy64
 Posts: 337 Location: Great Britain...not all that great |
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Sorry if this makes no sense at all I’m very tired and have had almost no sleep. Damn world of warcraft. Ok anyway
There is so much I want to say about this post but to be honest I can’t be arsed. First off violence could desensitisation in all forms of media, in film, TV and game. Think about game and computer game violence for a second. Age rating on games such as ohh I don’t know say halo (poor example but like I said I’m tired). halo has a age rating of 16 + here in the UK but when looking at action figures of the master chief the age rating on them is only 3+ what does that tell u. is bungie aiming for a younger audience. With regarding desensitisation in anime i would say the same applies. In hellsing and stuff like lunar legend u get violence on a mass scale and the age certificate is 15. Where as if it was released about 10 years it would have being an 18 or maybe even banned. Ok that’s all I have enough effort for hope this helps Space |
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Maken Buster
 Posts: 104 |
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It definitely adds a lot of punch to the scene when you add something that hurts to watch, on an emotional level. My problem is that after seeing spoiler[underaged girls getting tested on] in Elfen Lied, watching spoiler[a gradmother and her grandson get slaughtered] in Gantz lost a lot of it's impact. I'm not exactly sure why that is, be it desensitization or just prefering one cast over another, but I feel really guilty about it.
Still, done tastefully and in small amounts, it can be a hard thing to rival, as far as a show's impact is concerned. So I guess I'm mostly for it. |
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opaquescum
Posts: 235 |
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Space I think you missed the gist of where I was going. I was talking about anime creators doing violence in a way to make it so the viewer cannot be desensitized. I do not think age has any relevance. Since they are causeing the viewer to be emotionally involved with the plight of a character that is a victim of it.
This is somewhat different then a faceless victim. Which you never got a chance to form a connection with. The result of this is that you are actually troubled by the violent act. A way of thinking about it is bucking the trend. A good idea of what I mean is say you watch ninja scroll. Alot of innocent victims, but do you feal at all moved by their deaths? The film is a nonstop stream of death. The movie is pretty graphic. Now you take a series like Elfen many posters say extremely graphic more so then ninja scroll. The gag is Elfen lied, and Gantz for that matter have long periods of non violent downtime. Needless to say moments like those I mentioned have got to be haveing some real impact. The question is what are your fealings about this qualitatively different form of violence. Where the animes creators went to some effort so you could not be detached from it. This is very different from alot of anime series. Do you think it is healthy, and good? Do you think it is a bad thing. What is your take on the whole phenomena. P.S. Space you are showing the first signs of MMORPG addiction. This is a obsessive compulsive disorder. I strongly urge you to limit your playtime. This is some friendly advise. So do not take this the wrong way, as a fellow mmorpg player I can say it can do alot of harm. You need to always make a concerted effort to setup no MMORPG times, and make it a point to stop playing for decent breaks of time. In other words every month set asside a week not to play the game. This will help you to not become addicted. MMORPGs are dangerous for a healthy mind. When played responsibly they can be very enjoyable. The problem is it is easy to cross that fine line without even meaning to. Now the fact that your spreading the word about worlds of warcraft on a anime board is a obvious sign that the game is starting to consume you. Saying this as a friend it is time to not play the game for a week. Then if you find you cannot stay away for that long. Well it is time to get rid of the game. |
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Pleroma
Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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Just FYI, Halo is not an MMRPG.
<< Huge FFXII addict (been to the damn store 3 times today and they still dont have my freaking expansin disc!!!!) 
GIVE BLU OR GIVE ME DEATH! |
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Space_cowboy64
Posts: 337 Location: Great Britain...not all that great |
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thanks for your concern mate, and sorry if I went a bit off topic. I will take your advice and cut down somehow. But thanks anyway most appreciated Space |
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morsmaestro
 Posts: 172 Location: Sacramento |
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I don't think its an issue of whether people are becoming desensitized to violence; it depends on if it has anything to do with them.
If an atomic bomb were detonated in, lets say, Moscow, my general mindset would be (disregarding the threat of a nuclear war) 'Well, sucks to be them'. Is that really desensitization? Its not like I know anyone in Moscow. If I lived there and was out of town when it happened, you could imagine, I'd be pretty upset. Any emotional impact depends on a persons connection to the victim(s). An example?
In anime, as its already been said, whether or not there is an emotional element in the violence depends on if people can sympathize with the victim(s). It is possible to put an emotional impact on violence in a scene. If the creator(s) intended for the violence they show to be a 'hey, that's cool' kind of thing, it probably will turn out to be a 'hey, that's cool' kind of thing (unless they really suck at their job). Personally, I think its better when they put an emotional element into their violence (Although I do think Samurai Champloo was freakin' awesome), but its totally up to the creators. So its not the peoples' issues if they are becoming desensitized to violence because of the media, but its the media's issues if they are desensitizing people to violence. I can't really say if the situation is getting better or worse. Some creators make violence 'cool', while others don't. I'll watch both kinds, and can like both--with a tendency toward sensitivity. One thing I will say, however, is that anime puts a lot more emotional impact into violence than american animation. |
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GospelX
Posts: 185 Location: Ann Arbor, MI |
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morsmaestro, what you described was more along the lines of a general lack of empathy rather than desensitization. Being desensitized requires more of a gut reaction to a bit more direct interaction, although I use that term loosely, with the violence. It's not hearing about violence that's the issue but rather seeing it (well, hearing it can work, too). The concern so many people have is that fictional violence deadens the impact of real life violence somehow.
So, your hearing about a rape and saying it happens isn't an aspect of being desensitized -- but if you are witness to the rape and don't feel anything, then there may be cause for concern. However, hearing about a rape and not feeling at all bothered about it may not be a sign of desensitization, but it is a sign of insensitivity. |
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Fui
 Posts: 339 |
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Neither is FFXII  I believe you're referring to FFXI. FFXII hasn't been released yet. I had a 63 Taru THF...man life as THF was hell. 9 hours LFP, and farming for Scorpion Harness almost made me suicidal. Damn gilsellers.
Anyhow, I think there is some sort of slight correlation between being exposed to a certain type of violence and desensitization. I don't think any data is significant enough to seriously act on it, though. You would have to be a pretty messed up or desensitized person in the first place to act on it, anyway. |
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morsmaestro
Posts: 172 Location: Sacramento |
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Ouch. Its true, though  . I don't care about a lot of stuff.
I think that would go back to the original argument, that desensitization to violence is a direct result of exposure to it--which is true. |
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opaquescum
Posts: 235 |
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I think the thread is going off on the wrong track it really was not about the phenomena of people becomeing less sensitive to violence. This thread is about a new way of implementing violence in a meaningful way into some series I have recently watched.
In the examples I sighted the anime makers made it a point to first make the victim have a face. I know it sounds stupid, but they went to some effort to make it so that a viewer can relate to the victim of violence. Second they put the victim in a helpless position. Third they then portray the violence in a very graphic manner. The entire point is to get the viewer emotionally involved with the plight of another. Then they make you suffer with the victim. This is to make you have a strong emotional reaction to the violence. In effect they make you angry at them for showing you the violence. The whole point of this is you cannot be anything less then sensitive to the violence. That is unless you are really a sick individual. Needless to say the real question is do you think this is a good thing. Something you want to see more anime do rather then empty unemotional violence. On the other hand scenes like these I have little doubt definately increase the viewers perception of violence. Anyway this was never meant to be a general discussion about desensitization to violence. More along the lines of what do you think about a style that pretty much stops it in its tracks, and gives greater emotion to violence. |
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morsmaestro
Posts: 172 Location: Sacramento |
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I think its a good thing that anime is getting more into the emotional effect of violence. I like it when I'm actually affected by what I see. One scene that really had an impression on me was in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, when the refugees were doing a lot of suicide bombings, and the scared little refugee girl was surrounded by the police force (like the bomb squad/swat team guys--whatever their called in GITS:SAC) and Togusa tried to calm the girl down, but spoiler[ Batou runs in an blasts the girls head off and rips the detonator out of her body.] I really felt that one.
I'm not sure it would be a feasible idea in some anime. It would have been extremely hard to get that effect in some productions, like Samurai Champloo. I don't think that after doing that it would be any better. But for most series, yes. |
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Pleroma
Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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Personally, I'd say that yes it is a good thing. maybe its for the wrong reasons since I rather enjoy watching the violence, in other words, it fullfills its function since I notice it and definitely feel bad for the victim but I don't want it to stop if it serves the story.
(a certain new show's first scene has the lead pummeling two girls with baseball bat into a bloody pulp and then follows it up with what looks like your average high school comedy. Brilliant, and episode 2 had one hell of a scare too.) |
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