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NEWS: Kickstarter Suspends Anime Tube Crowdfunding Campaign


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LUNI_TUNZ



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:20 pm Reply with quote
I kind of heard about this throughout the week, but paid no real attention to it, but man, after reading up on it, this is hilarious. A real knee-slspper. My sides are in orbit.

My favorite part is him claiming that he's in talks with Japanese studios to "obtain information on the process for licensing acquisition."

Like, shouldn't that have been step one, before you even ask me for my money?
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Chiibi



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:43 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
A con finger-painter, maybe.


My dude. That joke was brilliant. Laughing
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:46 pm Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:


I see Anime Tube guy went to the "my client is not in fact human feces therefore calling him 'a piece of shit' is defamation" school of argumentation Laughing


Probably stole that bit from Vic's "lawyers".
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samuelp
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:32 pm Reply with quote
I like to look for silver linings here, and maybe one thing that could come of this is that this shows pretty convincingly that there is a market demand for a streaming alternative.
Maybe not a "practical" demand as in there is a lack of supply (most things are streamed somewhere these days), but rather a good will demand.

I think this shows there's a distinct lack of good will out there for the current streaming services, and that would in theory present an opportunity, which was shown here in practice.

This guy was a grifter and a con-artist at worse, or a completely self-deluded fool at best, but there are people and companies with the resources to create a proper competitor in the anime streaming space, and perhaps this incident will provide them the evidence and/or incentive to actually make a push.

Not to toot my own horn but I predicted this situation in the market would happen around now like 2 years ago: there's a space for a newcomer right now, if only someone could actually execute it.
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DerekL1963
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:55 pm Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
I like to look for silver linings here, and maybe one thing that could come of this is that this shows pretty convincingly that there is a market demand for a streaming alternative.


Well, we already knew there was a noisy minority of people who hate Crunchy and Funi and have a laundry list of grievances (some real, mostly imagined) and a persecution complex... So, no, it didn't show anything we didn't already know.

Quote:
there's a space for a newcomer right now, if only someone could actually execute it.


Unless you're talking Amazon or Disney or someone else with deep pockets and money to burn... Nah. A newcomer is facing a very (very) expensive uphill battle with only fair-to-middlin' chances of actually eventually turning a profit. Such a newcomer will need to attract the average anime fan, and that group largely aren't interested unless you can provide something seriously different and better than existing services. (And a raftload of exclu$I've$.)

The disgruntled noisy minority isn't big enough to pay the bills.

=========

That being said, Vice finally (and virtually unnoticed) released it's article on Anime Tube. While it's a bit of a poorly written mess that largely copies/recaps what's already been said... it's also not the vindication that Anime Tube seemed to expect.

Given the date on the article and the date of the "press release", I suspect the latter may be a response to the former.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3xwx8/kickstarter-shuts-down-anime-streaming-app-that-seemed-too-good-to-be-true
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samuelp
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:25 pm Reply with quote
DerekL1963 wrote:

Unless you're talking Amazon or Disney or someone else with deep pockets and money to burn... Nah. A newcomer is facing a very (very) expensive uphill battle with only fair-to-middlin' chances of actually eventually turning a profit. Such a newcomer will need to attract the average anime fan, and that group largely aren't interested unless you can provide something seriously different and better than existing services. (And a raftload of exclu$I've$.)

The disgruntled noisy minority isn't big enough to pay the bills.

The market is large enough for someone to wedge pretty deeply into one of the many cracks, without investing hundreds of millions of dollars.
I think of it like a game of go life or death problem. I see a way to make two eyes, so to speak.
Hidive or retrocrush are already an example, actually: They clearly don't have Disney money, but they are doing just fine. Their goals are a little different, of course.

As to your point about the disgruntled noisy minority: It's not so much their existence that's the point. The point is the lack of a loud counter minority. Compare to a company like Apple or Tesla instead. They have their own very noisy anti-s, but have just as loud if not louder groups of fanboys, which I don't detect in this case at all.
That's the clue that their brand good will is weak. Those "average anime fans" could care less where they actually watch their anime. As soon as someone provides a better service, they would be happy to switch. That's my point.
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:32 pm Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:

Hidive or retrocrush are already an example, actually: They clearly don't have Disney money, but they are doing just fine. Their goals are a little different, of course.


I can't speak on Retro Crush as I have never really used their service, but including HiDive in your example is a bit misleading. Or at least not quite accurate. Sure they don't have Disney money, but they are not some "brand new" entrant into the mix. They had a long standing history before the rebranding, as I'll call it. The connections were already in place with them and their previous history. They were not starting from scratch. Their partnership with Crunchy, after Funi and Crunchy split, has also obviously been a boon for them. Which we'll obviously have to wait and see if that continues in the future. The point still remains when they came into the mix as HiDive they were not some new company starting from scratch.
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samuelp
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:41 pm Reply with quote
Redbeard 101 wrote:

I can't speak on Retro Crush as I have never really used their service, but including HiDive in your example is a bit misleading. Or at least not quite accurate. Sure they don't have Disney money, but they are not some "brand new" entrant into the mix. They had a long standing history before the rebranding, as I'll call it. The connections were already in place with them and their previous history. They were not starting from scratch.

Sure, but there were other well connected services that didn't make it (daisuki, anyone?).

Anyway, I suppose my arguments are a little flimsy without deeper context on what exactly I'm thinking about. The weakness I see isn't purely on the consumer side: it's also about how anime is funded and made, and some of the consequences of Netflix's entry into that market, how studios are backed up, etc etc. There's an opening on the licensing _strategy_ side that I don't see anyone attempting to truly push yet. Time will tell if someone tries to exploit what I'm thinking about... I just hope things don't get any worse for the consumer in the meantime.
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Aresef



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:42 pm Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
I like to look for silver linings here, and maybe one thing that could come of this is that this shows pretty convincingly that there is a market demand for a streaming alternative.
Maybe not a "practical" demand as in there is a lack of supply (most things are streamed somewhere these days), but rather a good will demand.

I think this shows there's a distinct lack of good will out there for the current streaming services, and that would in theory present an opportunity, which was shown here in practice.

This guy was a grifter and a con-artist at worse, or a completely self-deluded fool at best, but there are people and companies with the resources to create a proper competitor in the anime streaming space, and perhaps this incident will provide them the evidence and/or incentive to actually make a push.

Not to toot my own horn but I predicted this situation in the market would happen around now like 2 years ago: there's a space for a newcomer right now, if only someone could actually execute it.


You're absolutely right. But I think the question is how would a company come in and challenge a vertically-integrated Sony behemoth? Unless the DOJ says otherwise, they're going to own Crunchyroll, Aniplex, 95% of Funimation and stakes in Animax and Madhouse.

So if Warner is no longer interested in anime (outside of what Adult Swim snags up), who does have the library and funding and expertise to come in with something? The only company that comes to mind would be NBCUniversal but NBCU has never really shown any interest in bringing over the former Geneon's stuff over themselves.
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DerekL1963
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:19 pm Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
The market is large enough for someone to wedge pretty deeply into one of the many cracks, without investing hundreds of millions of dollars.

Hidive or retrocrush are already an example, actually: They clearly don't have Disney money, but they are doing just fine. Their goals are a little different, of course.


Hang on a minute - now you're moving the goalposts. Your original claim was relative to "proper competitors in the anime streaming space" in a discussion about a service intending to take directly challenge Crunchyroll and Funimation. Niche players aren't really relevant to that discussion.

If you want to have that discussion, you need to be much clearer about your goals from the start.

Quote:
As to your point about the disgruntled noisy minority: It's not so much their existence that's the point. The point is the lack of a loud counter minority. Compare to a company like Apple or Tesla instead. They have their own very noisy anti-s, but have just as loud if not louder groups of fanboys, which I don't detect in this case at all.


Apple and Tesla both consciously positioned themselves as lifestyle choices and "anti" existing brands and industries. They both deliberately and knowingly created an antagonistic situation and spent considerable effort cultivating their fanbois. Crunchyroll and Funimation... have not. The two cases are emphatically not parallel and you cannot extrapolate from one to the other.

Quote:
Those "average anime fans" could care less where they actually watch their anime. As soon as someone provides a better service, they would be happy to switch. That's my point.


Very true, the average anime fan doesn't care quite so much about the brand. But they very emphatically do care about what a service offers and how much it's going to cost them. (That was the major criticism of Strike, it offered very little and cost a great deal.) And that's where Disney level dollars come in - the window of opportunity to get in on the ground floor cheaply is closed. Anyone who wants a seat at the Big Boy table is going to have to ante up Big Boy dollars.
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Zalis116
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:02 pm Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:

The market is large enough for someone to wedge pretty deeply into one of the many cracks, without investing hundreds of millions of dollars.

As to your point about the disgruntled noisy minority: It's not so much their existence that's the point. The point is the lack of a loud counter minority. Compare to a company like Apple or Tesla instead. They have their own very noisy anti-s, but have just as loud if not louder groups of fanboys, which I don't detect in this case at all.
That's the clue that their brand good will is weak. Those "average anime fans" could care less where they actually watch their anime. As soon as someone provides a better service, they would be happy to switch. That's my point.


But how much of that weak goodwill is because of the companies' actual failings, and how much is because of the relentless propaganda campaign of anti-industry misinformation and lies, carried out by the many influencers, grifters, outrage merchants, and saboteurs across the social media landscape? Meanwhile, anyone who states anything positive or even factually neutral about the companies gets labeled as a plant, shill, simp, sockpuppet, etc., thus suppressing any "vocal proponent" faction in the online spaces of the anime viewerbase. Whereas with Apple/Tesla and the like, I'm fairly there's no "it's morally acceptable to steal Apple and Tesla products if you can manufacture any grievances against the companies, and anyone who pays money for them is a naïve sucker who's letting themselves get played by outdated concepts of morality" faction whose view is regarded as the "default setting" in the community.

Indeed, there certainly would be comparatively low-cost opportunities to license stuff like the Rizelmines and G-On Riders, the Ginban Kaleidoscopes and Yume Tsukais, and the Touka Gettans and Tonagura!s of the world. But a new company entering the scene, licensing unavailable/forgotten content like that would only be greeted with scorn by the anime viewerbase, no matter how many cool and innovative features they brought to the table. "Not ANOTHER streaming service! Now I have to spend thousands of dollars a month for 61 subscriptions just to get 4% of the anime that airs every season!" Anime viewers don't want or care about the kind of low-cost content a new competitor would be able to get -- they want all the new seasonal shows, all the most popular shows from after whatever year is currently the "Too Old" cutoff, and the top-shelf "evergreen" classics from further back in time, all on one site an unrealistically low monthly price. And of course, all of that content is very much already in the hands of the various established distributors.

Some do propose the solution of "end exclusive licensing, make distributors compete only with service features," but that ignores the reality that most of the viewerbase is still going to stick with bootleg streaming sites that offer a better selection for free, no matter what features legal sites come up with.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:55 am Reply with quote
I tend to agree with Zalis. At least from what I see here in the forums, the noisy minority that hates on the existing streaming companies seems to be trying to make themselves feel better about pirating or to live in areas that are not served by them. There is your big potential market, streaming in the non North American areas.

For those of us that are opposed to pirating, the major streaming services are not in competition. Once you get past the "gotta watch them all" syndrome that is the first year or so of anime fandom, you are looking for specific shows to watch. Anime is not a commodity that you can buy wholesale and sell by the pound. If you want to watch show A it is on Funimation, show B is on Crunchy and C is on Netflix. No competition there. The only decision to make is the cost benefit analysis "does this service have enough content to warrant subscribing" (for me, Hidive currently does not).

Yes you could change that by doing away with exclusive licenses but I don't see that happening. Currently that is based on contracts between two private companies. Legislation to prevent that isn't going to happen in the US and probably not in Japan either. Just how likely is it that Japanese rights holders would be willing to work with five or six streaming services instead of granting an exclusive license?
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Dayraven



Joined: 21 Jul 2021
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:19 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:

Indeed, there certainly would be comparatively low-cost opportunities to license stuff like the Rizelmines and G-On Riders, the Ginban Kaleidoscopes and Yume Tsukais, and the Touka Gettans and Tonagura!s of the world.

The idea of a service trying to pick up some of the low-hanging fruit among shows that are just not available for streaming anywhere appeals to me — but then I’m someone who wishes Retrocrush was available in the UK and my “too old” cutoff dare for TV anime is 1963, so there’s just a chance I don’t represent everyone.
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