Forum - View topicMalevolent Spirits: Mononogatari (TV) (w/ index).
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b-dragon
Posts: 460 |
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Despite a seemingly limited budget, the show's done a pretty good job of conveying what's happening, as well as the personalities and tactics of the combatants. Taiju avoids direct confrontation, but is wily enough to prepare fallbacks and countermeasures (which makes his season 1 attack on Hyouma feel odd in hindsight, but I can attribute that to a degree of early installment weirdness.) Tsubaki utilizes creativity and bloodlust for unexpected and effective results. And Hyouma, who opens the episode on the back foot and probably worst situation of the three fronts (2v1, and an escort mission besides,) uses his toolset, good instincts, and pure stubborn will to push through. A good showing for all...until next week, when the momentum probably shifts again.
Hyouma's internal conflict is noticeably missing though- last time he met this particular Paper Umbrella, his bloodlust shone through. This time, it doesn't even register, in favor of protecting Botan. That feels both appropriate and somehow a little too simple to me. Its narratively and thematically appropriate, I think. And it could appear again in an upcoming episode. So perhaps I'm just making mountains out of molehills. I also just want to credit the show in general- A lot of the shows this season have been inconsistent in how much I've enjoyed them, whether from hiatus, characterization choices, or narrative decisions. But every week I've consistently enjoyed this, imo, underappreciated series. |
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Edjwald
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The dude is a hard one to pin down. Sometimes he seems far sighted and wily. Sometimes his short sightedness and incompetence seem glaring. Even if you excuse his willingness to turn spirits into slaves as a reflection of a "They're not human" attitude, his willingness to turn Hyoma into a puppet was downright evil. But then, he joins Botan's defense on the grounds that she's an ordinary girl at heart, and it's his duty to protect humans against spirits. He's ruthless, but he gets bossed around by his daughter (and also the cafeteria lady...though to be fair, only a fool messes around with a cook). Tsubaki, and the cafeteria lady...maybe he just has a weak spot where women are concerned.... Or maybe I should demand that fictional characters be non-contradictory when humans are rarely constant in all domains.
I am pulling on my choir robes and climbing into the pulpit behind you even whilst I type 
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11304 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Original discussion started here.
---------------------------------- Episode 20: Unseasonal ---------------------------------- Summary: Pending ---------------------------------- Comments: Pending ---------------------------------- Screen Caps:  
 
 
 
 
Last edited by Tony K. on Mon Sep 04, 2023 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23813 |
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Episode 21
Well, we got the Bureau's rationale for backstabbing the humans. I personally don't like it, but I concede it is perfectly logical and understandable if you view it through the Bureau's lens. They were originally musical instruments. Of course it makes sense they want to be heard by the widest possible audience on the biggest possible stage. Opening the door between the human and marebito worlds would certainly accomplish that. They are merely trying to fulfil an urge that aligns with their musical origins. But I still think they suck. Another interesting tidbit: the umbrella who killed Hyoma's siblings knew how to use Saenome talismans. To me, that suggests there is a Saenome traitor who taught the tsukumogami how to do that. Here's a crazy and probably wrong thought: what if Tsubaki Kadomori is that traitor? She certainly is a whiz with talismans. And it was established that she is a berserker who doesn't fight out of a sense of duty, but rather just from the sheer love of battle. If she is the traitor (assuming there actually is one) might she have done this thinking it would lead to bigger and more spectacular battles? Hmmm.... |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2866 |
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#21
However one judges the Gagakubu's motivations for siding with the Umbrellas, they are nothing if not consistent. Like the Sougenbi before them, they cannot ignore the urges of the vessels they occupy. If torture was the raison d'etre for the Sougenbi, public performances apply to the Gagakubu. The world of the dead has A LOT of spirits which are perfectly amenable to music in the world of the living, and the bigger the audience the better. It doesn't matter if the stage they perform in might be hell on earth, the audience in whatever form will listen to the music all the same. The hint given back when the Gagakubu were visiting the Nagatsukis probably wasn't picked up by most viewers, so the explanation given in full really had to be delivered properly to ensure the rationale was properly elaborated. Tsubaki's behaviour has already been pointed out before (by the Sougenbi no less). The only difference this time round is the fight dragged on long enough for Hyouma to actually see for himself what she's really about, since the last time they fought together he was preoccupied with his end and didn't have the luxury of closely watching how she finished hers so quickly. I don't think the animators are going to bring forward that answer into this adaptation either, and I personally think it should be left that way as the answer to that is another aspect which shouldn't be revealed too early because of how crucial it is to the plot as a whole. The animators did leave one hint in the original airing before this week's recap; that scene has the only clue to date of the Umbrella's true nature. The episode is another chance for the animators to show off their technical prowess as a lot of the airtime is devoted to the ongoing action. For me this is one of the best episodes to date as far as that aspect is concerned, although others may beg to differ. It would be harsh to say the animation for the battle sequences is sub-par, and I'm satisfied with the final product especially as they had considerable leeway for this particular sequence. Certainly not on par with something an AAA animation studio could produce if given the same material, but it could have been much, much worse. It can't get any worse for the protagonists now that the Umbrellas have assembled in one place and the Gagakubu have successfully shaken off their opposition to join them. [EDIT: Condescension removed. -TK] |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1157 |
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There's a question of free will involved. To what extent are tsukumogami defined by their object nature? Does it follow that if a tsukumogami bonded with a matchbox, it would be an arsonist? Who says that a musical instrument would be consumed by a need to play to the largest audience? Why not just to play its best or create new kinds of music? To think that the vast majority of musical instruments out there in the hands of band members and garage bands and kids being forced to practice by their parents are sad and unfulfilled spirits (sob) More to the point, if you have a desire, does it follow that you have to lie and kill to achieve it? Even if you argue that serving humans was a kind of bondage, the bureau lied to the Nagatski clan's faces while planning to betray them all along. Isn't the nature of music to try to reach people through music? Maybe the bureau are just frustrated because they possessed instruments whose owners just weren't very good as musicians, and they suck at it? I have to say, I haven't seen too many rock band trios with a flute player...
I was curious about how that situation came about as well. Assuming that learning talismans would take time, the only possibilities I can figure are (A) traitor (B) A well meaning saenome pacificist with a "Can't we all just get along?" mentality thought it would build bridges (C) some saenome equivalent of a mad scientist, like the same douche bags who thought messing around with Botan's soul and a marebito was a worthwhile experiment. (D) some saenome was held prisoner and tortured over a long period of time. If it was an act of treason (or mad recklessness), Tsubaki would certainly be a frontrunner. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23813 |
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A question just occurred to me. We haven't seen much of the Bridal Trousseau in the last two episodes but I believe the last time we did see them they were battling members of the Umbrella Group. However, apparently the Umbrellas are now fully assembled in Kyoto. Which begs the question... uh, what is the Bridal Trousseau doing now?
As for what may turn the tables for our imperilled heroes, there's a couple of options: 1) There are tsukumogami forces we've met before in Kyoto who have not chimed in yet (we see one of them in the Preview); 2) Other Saenome, such as Hyoma's grandfather, are out there, but potentially geographically out of reach; 3) Kushige / the rest of the Bridal Trousseau - Kushige seems to be down for the count but might he mount a comeback before the end of the battle? The Bridal Trousseau is no longer in Kyoto but then again, neither were 3 out of 4 Umbrellas and they still managed to make it back to Maison Kadomori, so... 4) My personal favourite: the Umbrellas and their allies are deliberating trying to force the marebito inside of Botan to emerge, but perhaps that won't quite play out the way they are expecting. |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1157 |
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I'll be stunned if the bridal trousseau isn't coming back before the fight is over.
Those shadowy barriers are like the shadow patches created by an umbrella. I think. And when the umbrella snaps shut, the shadowy patches disappear. My question is, when those paper umbrellas create a barrier, do they carry it around inside themselves? Or is the barrier left as a shadow in whatever area it was created? Because if the umbrella is carrying the bridal trousseau around inside it, I'm predicting a big case of indigestion coming up. And speaking of shadowy things, Tsubaki's parting words to barrier boy were a heaping big helping of foreshadowing. Unless this manga ended early and the anime will completely finish the story, I'm thinking that Botan achieving a state of hybridity would be further down the road if it's in the cards at all. But she did black out and let the marebito take over when she was kidnapped as a child, and at that time, the marebito turned all the people who had threatened her into sushi unless I'm misremembering or misunderstood. I wonder if the marebito also set up the paper umbrella brigade while Botan was blacked out. Watched a little TV. Made a couple of sandwiches. Played some miniature golf. Created a cult of would be freedom fighting terrorists.... |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23813 |
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@ Edjwald - the Umbrellas carrying their closed space (or barriers if you prefer) with them makes sense to me. That would also conveniently justify having the Bridal Trousseau join the fray.
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b-dragon
Posts: 460 |
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Not too many, no. But the flautist for Jethro Tull, Ian Anderson, comes to mind- though, admittedly the style presented is completely different. As for getting out of this situation...yeah, the Nagatsuki household comes to mind. Even leaving aside the how, though, that may not be sufficient on its own. Kushige's return was..."teased" is perhaps too strong a word, but Tsubaki's scene with "him" is either that or a red herring. And perhaps that's an arrival better used not for the fight but for pulling Botan back out to herself. Maybe Hyoma's grandfather and some of his crew? A bit of a reach. And I'm glad to eat my earlier words. Hyoma had that confrontation with his grudge. The issue came up, was addressed, and (temporarily at least,) put to rest. Good stuff. |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11304 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Original discussion started here.
---------------------------------- Episode 21 (S02E09): Advent ---------------------------------- Summary: Pending ---------------------------------- Comments: Pending ---------------------------------- Screen Caps:  
 
 
 
 
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23813 |
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Episode 22
Well, I sort of got my wish. I was hoping that the emergence of the living god inside Botan was not going to have quite the outcome the Forces of Evil were intending and one of the Bureau did get zapped. YAY!!! However, the Umbrella Group was not dismayed so I suspect the emergence was still being welcomed which makes it a good thing that Hyoma was able to step in and bring Botan back. This was then followed up by the welcome return of the Bridal Trousseau. Had to chortle at Yu's displeasure over the "touchy-feely" stuff between Hyoma and Botan. Kushige has not yet made an appearance, but seems to be repaired. Don't quite know what to make of the fact that one of the Umbrella's looks like Hyoma's dead brother but I suspect that will clear itself up in the fullness of time. A most satisfying episode. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2866 |
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#22
From last week's rock-bottom, this week marks somewhat of a comeback. The Second Coming for the Tsukumogami hasn't quite panned out the way the Umbrellas wanted, but the Umbrellas aren't completely disappointed with the outcome. Interesting cameo from Tsujii Hojou spoiler[yet another anime-only original insert before its time, but I'm beginning to guess the reasoning behind these inserts ahead of time], but that's for another time. For the record, no one apart from the Kyoto Saenome mechanic has realised Kushige has recovered sufficiently to restore the protective barriers around Botan. As far as the Umbrellas are concerned, they all think Hyouma is solely responsible for sending their God back to sleep. With the obvious exception of Yuu, none of the Nagatsuki household are in any doubt now that Hyouma is their main candidate for marrying Botan as he's gone further than anyone else to date in their appraisal process. The action isn't over yet, since the Nagatsuki household now get their turn taking on the remaining Gagakuryou members. It's quite even, as one side have permanently lost a member while the usual Five who engage in combat exerted themselves considerably breaking through Tenjitsu's Umbrella. This is another part which even manga readers should be looking forward to, since the process is a complete unknown as it wasn't exposited at source. As for Tenjitsu's appearance, well that's definitely for future adaptations if any. Note his short speech when he first revealed himself to Hyouma, as it has one clue about what exactly happened after the ambush. Compared to Hyouma's brother, the animators have taken considerable trouble to show off his eyes. Not long to go now, there's enough time for one last action set piece episode and that the finale to round things off. spoiler[As for future adaptations, the animators definitely want to continue the franchise given the number of times they've added in anime-original inserts ahead of source material. They've also proven they can alter things so that the overall flow is not compromised by the advance introductions. However, the two split seasons were the only project greenlit from the start and any future adaptations will definitely depend on home video sales. I'm not optimistic on this front; the show itself is not panned by neutral Japanese viewers but the adaptation is not setting the world on fire the same way big hits like Oshi no Ko etc. make this website's news from the anime bounce.] spoiler[]The second season has not been disappointing, and in some ways is an improvement over the first. However, it has not done well enough to stand out in what is a ridiculously crowded and competitive season which has been the trend post-pandemic. If these two seasons had been released in the middle of global lockdowns, it would have been better received as there was less competition. The franchise is almost complete as well, so there's one last chance for timing when the final volume releases in conjunction with the rest of the home video releases. If the show doesn't get the bounce then, I don't see future adaptations happening.] |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1157 |
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Yah, that was satisfying. Most of it played out in ways that weren't all that surprising but were very gratifying, and then bam! Brother? Huh? What? Are you #$%ing kidding me?
At first I thought, "Well, now we know who taught them about talismans." But then that line about Kanotos always being a pain in the ass makes it sound like the brother wasn't a traitor, and if he was ambushed and his body is being worn like a second skin...then the paper umbrella already knew about talismans....? For once, I don't even want to speculate. I mean, it's too late...my brain started spinning through marebito/human experiment 1.0 options to the umbrella unfolding itself inside the brother on some gross metaphysical level (ouch), but I suspect none of that will wind up being close to the whole truth. If they can reveal the truth and it isn't convoluted, it'll be a hell of thing. I am reasonably sure that it isn't just a case of a spirit using its form changing abilities to look like someone else though. Whatever's going on, it's going to have greater repercussions on Hyouma than that. Good stuff. |
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b-dragon
Posts: 460 |
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Very little about the episode's content was particularly shocking, but it was all executed quite well, so I've nary a complaint. Botan's turn and return, Hyoma's hug, the Trousseau's arrival- this is well trod ground. But tropes aren't bad, and the writing seems to understand why they work well and employs them accordingly. It's....a very cathartic episode, in many ways.
The two surprises are Not-Brother (as between the eyes and the comment about the Kunatos, he's probably not the deceased brother.) and the Music Bureau. For the former- I wonder to what extent Tsukumogami can alter their appearance. I'm i'm sure it can be somewhat idiosyncratic- like Ushiki and Kagami- but is there a standard ability? It doesn't seem like it would be a part of a paper umbrella's ouevre. Or can they have their appearance be altered by an outside agent? I'm not shocked that the Bureau didn't change sides. But I did think they'd spend a moment reconsidering after their "god" made their trio a duo for an imperfection. Now they can't just win. They need to win cleanly, perfectly, to fulfill their dream. I'd half expected them to reconsider, only to decide that they were in too deep to turncoat again. |
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