Forum - View topicFruits Basket (see 2nd post for thread info)
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I guess I'll have to make darn sure I remember. Anyways, we're almost to Friday or Saturday I believe when we change topics. Were we going to be discussing the next pairing or were we going to discuss volume 20? Edit: We're one page away from catching the Haruhi thread!!! |
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Well then, we're just going to have to keep posting, right? 
I think everybody has a copy of Vol. 20 now, so we'll start dicussing it late Friday night or early Saturday morning (or whenever I get off work and can post the opener  )
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FireMiko-Kagomechan
Posts: 8 |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Yes, she was pretty unhappy about Ren and Akira getting together, especially since Ren had been a lowly maid. Takaya-sensei never really stated who or what she was, which leaves the situation very open to fan discussion. But, if she spoiler[were the mother of Akira, then why was she a maid herself? And wouldn't she have come from the same background that Ren came from?] |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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Ah...the joys of hypocrisy. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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And let us not forget that hypocrisy is a common practice in the world of FB. Not only does it happen within the Sohma Clan, but it also happens to spoiler[Tohru, Kyoko, Machi, ]and whoever else might have been a victim of something in their past. |
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murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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And now the week everyone's been waiting for! Let's dig into Vol. 20.
I'll start off by listing some of my personal highlights in the volume. Tohru spoiler[finally admits that Kyo is the most important person to her. Yay!! She even goes as far to say that wanting to help and protect the entire zodiac was only justification because she didn't want to lose Kyo. She's finally being honest with herself and not just hide behind that cheerful attitude anymore. And her scene at end with Kyo, just wow! Talk about someone who believes he is not deserving of love.] Kagura spoiler[surprised me in that scene, and not just because she clocked Tohru. I'm beginning to believe she's truly loves Kyo, because she helped Tohru make up her mind to confess and admitted that she can trust Tohru's feelings for Kyo. And then she ran back into the background to mourn the loss of Kyo again, giving Kyo and Tohru enough space to make their move when they are ready. I think that's just about the most mature think Kagura has done so far in the story. She knows Kyo and Tohru have feelings for each other, and she's willing to step out of the way for their happiness, despite her own emotions.] Momiji and Hiro: spoiler[How bittersweet was it for these two. Freed from the curse, yet at the same time severed from the one tie that kept them part of the group. Being free won't help Momiji win Tohru -- she's already decided. And he also can't return to his fuill family, and fully be a part of his mother's and sister's lives again. Seeing Hiro holding his baby sister was very sweet and emotional, and the group hug with his mother, it made me want to cry. ] And lastly, Kureno. spoiler[I think Akito might have finally snapped (those of us who have read the scanlations know whether this is true ) Distraught over the loss of two more zodiac, she stabs the one person who has tried to support her the longest. And, she finally admits that we've been saying for a while now, Kureno should have made a clean break when his curse was lifted.]
I look forward to everyone's posts. I'm excited to see where the discussion takes us! |
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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Poor Tohru spoiler[I can certainly sympathize with how hard it was for her to admit that she loves Kyo more than she loves her mother. It's hard because she thinks that if she admits that, her mother will disappear from her heart. That slap Kagura gave her obviously was a doozy but it certainly got something out between her and Tohru.]
The Old Bitchspoiler[ has got to be of high rank within the Sohma household: [quote="chapter 115, page58] Of course we won't acknowldge a woman like you! I don't know what you did to gain Akira-san's favor...but learn your place!...Be quiet! Leave immeadiately! Never cross the sohma threshold agai- An ordinary person wouldn't say anything like that ] The scene with Momiji spoiler[ and Akito was interesting. Momiji has broken free of the Zodiac curse and realizes just how pathetic Akito really is. And, of course, Akito freaks out. It's also interesting how Haru & Yuki know that something is different about him but they aren't able to put their finger on quite what it is. But poor Momiji really hasn't completely broken free has he? His mother still does not know about him and probably never will.] Hiro spoiler[surprised me. I didn't expect his release from the curse in this volume even though I should have expected that more members would be released because there's only 3 more volumes after this one. But Hiro is certainly going to be better off than Momiji. His mother never rejected him and is now delighted that she can hold her boy and that he can hold his little sister. (How'd the baby grow so fast anyways?) Hiro's mother's love will help him alot, I think.] Poor Kyo! spoiler[Witnessing Kyoko's death and dealing with the fact that if he'd grabbed her she wouldn't have been hit by the car and because he didn't, he isn't worthy of Tohru's love. At least that's what I'm getting from the scene.] |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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When it comes to questions that many people may have had in the beginning about certain situations or things within the series, volume 20 sure gives a lot of answers to them. One, we found out a heck of a lot about Akito's roots. And we also saw why Ren spoiler[hated Akito so much. She felt that she was the only one that was important to Akira, until Akito was conceived. Then it became a living hell for her. Only at the end did Akira realize who was the most important person in his life, and I think it rather unfortunate that he never really got to tell Ren how much he loved her.]
Why did Akito spoiler[go crazy and make all the Zodiac members suffer the way they had to? Simple enough, it all goes back to Kureno. Sure, both sides couldn't have known better, but pretty much what made Akito get all paranoid and crazy, on top of her battle with Ren all came down to Kureno being released from the curse. Like she said, he should have left her when he had the chance. Ren caught onto the fact that Akito was losing her grip on the Zodiac, which is why they were in competition with each other. And that is why you also would see quite a few women suffer at the hands of Akito, Zodiac and non-Zodiac alike. ] More after somebody else comments. |
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suna_suna
 Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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well fighter, it's a good thing you brought upspoiler[Akira's death. if you look at it, he spent most of Akito's infancy telling her how special she was, that she was the one everyone has been waiting for. and than he comes out and says that he wanted her to be special to prove that he and Ren were special. He loved Akito, and he didn't love her just because she was god, but he wanted that part of god to be the biggest part of her life because it gave Ren something to be proud of. Akito hears his dying words and can't stand the thought of someone being loved more than her, because she was "born to be loved". That really started her hatred of Ren. ]
The spoiler[Box. The old maid proved herself to be the cause of alot of problems. Maybe she did the right thing, trying to consol Akito, but she didn't count on what Akito had heard from Akira, or that Shigure would tell Ren. This in turn caused ren to go more insane, and it caused the incident with Rin and the Nekotsuki room. and finally, s=when everything was revealed, Akito stabbed Kureno for not being honest with her. It's quite sad that for all those years, all Kureno did was keep Akito from crying, as he wanted to do, but it was not the right thing to do.] Hirospoiler[has a better time than Momiji though. He has his parents and his sister, and he has Kisa. but Momiji can't have his family or his love, and he lost the one thing that he felt made him part of something. he is alone, and for who knows how long he will have to deal with the pain of losing both his family and the one he loves. both of them have alot to do a think about, and both will be sad, but i have hope.] Ahhhh, chapter 114. spoiler[I've been waiting for this chapter to be released here for a while. that chapter marks the beginning of the end. we all knew it was coming, and so did all the other characters, but i love that scene. "the most important thing in my life". Unfortunatly, Tohru somehow see's it as a bad thing. Mostly because she is worried that the memory of her mother will disappear, but at the start she questions why she feels that way, wondering if it's pity. The story about Kazuma's grandfather is one of the hardest to deal with. He was happier than he could have been otherwise, but i wonder if he knew that she was only doing it out of pity, or even if he loved her. Kagura hit Tohru because she wasn't saying it to Kyo, but i think also because she was just being safe sbout the whole pity thing] And finally, the real climax of the entire seriesspoiler[begins. A rainy day, Shigure is gone and Yuki is asleep. we will never know exactly what Tohru was about to say to Kyo, but he asked her himself: "do you love me?" as she really began to realize what everything meant, Kyo decides he doesn't want to hear her say no. and that's the whole thing, he doesn't think that she could ever say yes. when he says i didn't know you could be so stupid, i think he was talking to himself. that's why he trys to go get away quickly. when she starts to follow, again trying to say something, he says what he says with such an intense look of pain in his eyes, he is even crying. he doesn't want to say it, he doesn't want to admit it, and he doesn't want her to hear it. It was his fault Kyoko died. He sees it as, that inspite of everything that his father, Akito, and countless others have said, he chose to rpotect himself. many say it would be better he just died, and he has thought that way as well, but he always protected himself. he can;'t bring himself to believe that he ever find happiness with Tohru and he has convinced himself that his feelings are one sided.] spoiler[i can't believe that he held all this in for the two years he has been at that house. the pain that must have caused him. this one volume answers so many questions we've had for a long time. ] on a lighter note, the filler stkech on page 41 is great, and 20 is Kyo and Tohru's payback for volume 18 |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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The difference between Momiji and Hiro spoiler[being released from the curse tends to be on different standards and situations. ]Obviously Momiji spoiler[had nothing to gain from being released, as was the same when Kureno was released. Momiji didn't have his family, and now he was an outcast within the Zodiac circle. His mother wouldn't recognize him even now, so how can he go and tell her that he is her son?] Which is why his situation is so sad.
Hiro, on the other hand, spoiler[while he lost the spirit that he had lived with all his life, gained much. ]Throughout the series we saw quite a bit from this young man, from spoiler[his immaturity to his never failing feelings for Kisa. Even to the point where he became a big brother. And for the first time, he was able to embrace some of the dearest women in his life he had never been able to before.] |
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suna_suna
Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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ahspoiler[but if you look at it, until the day the curse is completely gone, Hiro will not be able to embrace the one person more important to him than anyone else, Kisa] Last edited by suna_suna on Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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I started to write something about spoiler[ hugging then I re-read your post, (please change "now" to "not" it threw me off ). Yeah, it's going to be hard for Hiro for a while in that he won't be able to be as close to Kisa but I think he'll get through it quite well with the help of his mother. Here's hoping that Kisa will be the next one released.]
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Ningensei
 Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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This volume was so great! They just keep getting better and better. It was finally nice to see some spoiler[backstory on the whole Ren/Akito situation and what exactly happened in the past. There is finally an explanation for where all this hatred came from. Though going back to our discussion about Akito's hatred for female zodiac members, it probably is related to her relationship with Ren, and how she was brought up as a boy and had no say in the matter.]
I can't believe what spoiler[Akito did to Kureno, though. He was always there for her, and sacrificed his own potential happiness with someone else just so that Akito wouldn't be alone. And then when the curse was lifting and Akito felt like she was losing control of everyone she lashed out at him, despite everything he's done for her. And the scene where Uo-chan finds the injured/dead(?) sparrow was really depressing. I hope Kureno is okay...] Ah yes, being a Tohru/Kyo fan I have to comment on what happened between them in this volume. Finally, spoiler[Tohru realizes her feelings within herself, and confesses to Kyo. This moment is so difficult for both of them because of different reasons, but it is interesting that they both involve Kyoko. I can't wait to see what happens next volume and how Tohru reacts to what Kyo has told her about her mom. But I have a feeling that she will love him anyway, because she did say he was the most important person to her. And that means a lot if her feelings for him have surpassed those for her mom.] Oh and I am so glad for spoiler[Hiro, but with Momiji it really makes me feel sad more than anything. I am glad he is free, but he cannot be with the woman that he loves. ] |
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suna_suna
Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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wooops, sorry about that. it's fixed now (i will say some things that may hint at future events)spoiler[i would now like to open the floor to theories as to why the curse was broken for Kureno, Momiji and Hiro. as i have read to the end, i know how the curse will finally be broken, but these individuals were released very spontaneously and sporadically. one theory i have is that it happens when what could be cnsidered a huge change happens. For Kureno, it was Kazuma showing Kyo love for thefirst time. that is assuming that those events happened around the same time. For Momiji, it was Tohru realizing her love for Kyo. Hiro is the odd one because there is no seemingly obvious reason. One possibility is that it was because Tohru decided to confess to Kyo, or it might that Akito was truly about to kill Ren. this is all just speculation, but knowing certain things that happend before, why do you all think that those three wee released?] |
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); as for Kagura, well, in Akito's eyes she seems meaningless, the type of girl that wouldn't attract any man because of her violent character. But all the other jyuunishi are male and somehow Akito tries to control their love life in a very restrictive manner. I think it was Shigure who says that Akito doesn't bother (or something like that) being perceived as a male but at the same time she is quick in using her female charms. 
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