Forum - View topicBest Hero/Heroine Tournament: Finished!
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Group D-25
Ashitaka, Princess Mononoke vs. Kikuchiyo, Samurai 7 I've said before that pretty much everyone that's left in the tournament at this stage deserves to be in the running. Of the remaining participants, however, these are two of the characters that I feel most luke-warm towards. On the whole, I feel that Kikuchiyo deserves my vote the most, because of the tragic nature of his struggle to achieve a measure of heroic recognition among an entirely separate people. Group D-26 Mahoro Ando, Mahoromatic franchise vs. Kamina, Gurren Lagann I am at a loss as to how to vote here... on the one hand, Mahoro is a doomed yet determined heroine, the kind I like best. On the other hand, Kamina is simply indefatigable, and that's really hard to argue with. I think, on balance, my vote goes to Mahoro. Group D-27 Simon, Gurren Lagann vs. Honoka, The Third: The Girl With The Blue Eye Whatever Kamina might lack, Simon has. No hero is more heroic than when he reaches deep inside himself and overcomes everything that isn't heroic about his soul -- when he decides that, come Hell or high water, he is going to succeed, and he won't let anyone gainsay that, least of all himself. Group D-28 Youko Nakajima, The Twelve Kingdoms vs. Juna Ariyoshi, Arjuna Hard choice. Not because they are both equally heroic, but because they are flawed in the same way. These two are reluctant heroes. It never really was in their nature to be heroic -- but, faced with the demand for heroism, they decided to go along with it. In that respect, neither is a true heroic figure. Overall, though, I will give my vote to Youko, because she turns over a new leaf midway and becomes genuinely heroic, something Juna really never manages to do. - abunai |
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Murasakisuishou
 Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
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Personally, I would argue that Juna does become truly heroic, although not until much later in the story. When left with no other choice but to spoiler[take the polluted raaja into her body in order to save Japan,] she went for it, never mind spoiler[the visibly damaging effects they had on her predecessor]. While I do think that Youko deserves to win this round, I don't agree that the competition is as one-sided as a lot of other voters have said. The main reason that Youko comes off as so much more genuinely heroic is that The Twelve Kingdoms is presented in such an epic style, whereas Arjuna is very slow and introspective in its pacing and design. I remember watching the end of the last Youko-centric arc of 12K and being absolutely floored by badass when Youko was sitting at the head of her army on Keiki, and then again when she made her first proclaimation - I can't say I felt anything like that at any point during Arjuna, although I did cry at the end. If both anime were paced on the same scale, the comparison of the two girls would likely be a bit different, but Arjuna would also only be about three episodes long. Really, if you look at them objectively, Youko and Juna are basically the same person, but Youko, being a hero written to fit into such a grand, epic world, naturally has the edge. |
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blazingeyes
 Posts: 15 |
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D-25
Ashitaka I've seen PM rather recently so I can say rather reliably that Ashitaka seems to embodsy everything it is to be heroic. D-26 Kamina I find it hard to describe him. He is simply awesome. D-27 Simon I'm actually rather impressed by Honoka but I can't vote against Simon, who went so far and achieved so much. D-28 Youko I didn't like Twelve Kingdoms but Youko impresses me more than Juna. |
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Group D-25
Ashitaka, Princess Mononoke vs. Kikuchiyo, Samurai 7 This is a tough call. One one side we has Ashitaka, who fights to protect both sides in a war between the forest and humans. Then there's Kikuchiyo, who grows from bumbling oaf to warrior who spoiler[sacrifices himself to protect the village. ] I think Kikuchiyo gets my vote here for becoming a hero. Group D-26 Mahoro Ando, Mahoromatic franchise vs. Kamina, Gurren Lagann Voting for Kamina, based on other's comments. I have not seen the series. Group D-27 Simon, Gurren Lagann vs. Honoka, The Third: The Girl With The Blue Eye I'm going to tilt at a windmill and vote for Honoka. Simon seems likely to move on without my support. Honoka is a hero who uses her brain and heart in addition to her sword. In some arcs within the series, Honoka wins the battle by empathizing with her opponent instead of just beating them in battle. She spoiler[comforts a weapon of mass destruction which has the personality of a lonely little boy, forgotten during a long-ago war. She finds a kindred spirit in a member of The Third whose abilities are slightly different than the others. Her empathy toward Fila Marique wins the battle and also comforts a person who is dying. She even finds common ground with Blue Breaker, who killed her friend and left Millie an orphan. She doesn't forgive the robot, but her actions cause it to question its purpose in existing, a step in the right direction for what is otherwise a remorseless killing machine.] She's also capable of very direct action, when the situation demands it. I'm rambling. 
Group D-28 Youko Nakajima, The Twelve Kingdoms vs. Juna Ariyoshi, Arjuna Voting for Youko. Based on other's comments. |
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ccdx
 Posts: 312 |
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Group D-25
Ashitaka, Princess Mononoke vs. Kikuchiyo, Samurai 7 No question Ashitaka. He embodies everything it means to be a hero. Very pure, willing to help others friend or foe, willing to put himself at risk for the greater good, selfless to the extreme. And let me say that just because a character appears to have bland exterior, which if you look closely Ashitaka really doesn't, doesn't make them less of a hero. It may make one less likable as a character, but I choose to vote based on their heroic actions. Group D-26 Mahoro Ando, Mahoromatic franchise vs. Kamina, Gurren Lagann I'll give the slight edge to Kamina for now. I must admit I don't know all there is to know about Mahoro, but from what I saw of her in the clip a few episodes after, she didn't have any real depth to her character or in her heroic acts. I don't consider Kamina all that strong either as I'll explain next round. Group D-27 Simon, Gurren Lagann vs. Honoka, The Third: The Girl With The Blue Eye Have to vote for Simon. The real true hero of the series. Starts out as a wuss, but matures into a strong leader and larger than life hero. Group D-28 Youko Nakajima, The Twelve Kingdoms vs. Juna Ariyoshi, Arjuna I don't consider either to be all that heroic compared to others in this bracket. If I have to choose I'd say Youko. Juna seems very reluctant to take on her new role as savior of the earth. She obviously would have preferred to live her normal life of a clueless teenager but was forced to become something she initially didn't want to. No true hero should ever be reluctant. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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Group D-25
Ashitaka, Princess Mononoke vs. Kikuchiyo, Samurai 7 Ashitaka. Kikuchiyo is not unworthy as a hero and does show some important growth, but his personality is occasionally a bit of an issue as well. Ashitaka seems to be a better overall choice because of his accomplishments, as already described in detail elsewhere and by others, both before and after having to deal with the curse that puts his own life at risk. Group D-26 Mahoro Ando, Mahoromatic franchise vs. Kamina, Gurren Lagann I've been a consistent but clearly not very enthusiastic supporter of Kamina for several rounds during this tournament and this seems destined to continue for now. Both reckless and brave, I don't think he is the greatest hero ever and he should fall sooner rather than later...but at the same time, he does have enough courage and an inspirational personality (although that is, of course, a two-way street in one particular case) that allows both himself and others to struggle onward, no matter the cost. On a purely conceptual level Mahoro looks to be a more interesting character and certainly has some worthwhile selflessness to her as well, given her guide entry and clip, but it's hard to say that makes her equal or superior in this instance. Group D-27 Simon, Gurren Lagann vs. Honoka, The Third: The Girl With The Blue Eye While this may be pointless right now, it's good to see that Honoka does have at least a semblance of support, considering that her guide entry and a very impressive clip make her a versatile hero as well as an interesting and admirable character, but at the same time I still have to give this one to Simon in the end, due to his own character growth, the scale of his heroics and how he is able to surpass someone like Kamina in pretty much every conceivable way in my book. Group D-28 Youko Nakajima, The Twelve Kingdoms vs. Juna Ariyoshi, Arjuna As others have mentioned before, both of these characters had to face certain issues that made them hesitate early on, but even so, I find Youko to be a better choice overall than Juna given the nature of her circumstances, how she is able to overcome her own weaknesses and assume great responsibilities, despite my acknowledging Juna's heroism as important enough during previous rounds. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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D-25: Kikuchiyo
Kikuchiyo has a good heart, and becomes a noble warrior (spoiler[he even sacrifices himself in an awesome and tragic act which saves the village]). Ashitaka is going to advance to the next round it seems, and I do think he is a good candidate. But I think Kikuchiyo is more believable and down-to-earth. D-26: Mahoro Two characters I hate from two franchises I hate. Went with Mahoro because I didn't really have a choice. The nature of TTGL means that there aren't heroes, just people who yell obnoxious slogans loudly and obnoxiously. D-27: Honoka Won't vote for Simon for the same reason as above, and Honoka is a good choice anyway. I should check out her series when I'm not so swamped. D-28: Youko I was leaning towards her initially, and the clip and people's comments sealed the deal. Another series I need to check out, though I already knew that. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16939 |
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I got 10 minutes to post really quickly. Just got back from a quick 2 day weekend trip. So pardon the relative lack of reasoning. No time to make dealine in 9 minutes now.
Group D-25 Kikuchiyo, Samurai 7 Reason: Between the two I am going with Kikuchiyo based on votes through the tournament. Think both are equal personally but arguments for Kikuchiyo have been more persuasive IMO. Group D-26 Kamina, Gurren Lagann Reason: I'm a sucker for the big, brash, and just loud hero lol. I mean I love Mahoro and I loved Mahoromantic. It's just to me Kamina is just the epitome of a hero in action and more importantly in his way of thinking. Group D-27 Simon, Gurren Lagann Reason: See my above reasons for Kamina heh. I think by the end of the show Simon is the bigger of the two in terms of a hero actually. I mean kamina starts off with that way of thinking where as Simon grows into it. he evolves more as a character IMO and into a true hero. Group D-28 Youko Nakajima, The Twelve Kingdoms Reason: I simply think Youko simply has Juna beat all around. And nothing in the guide or arguments presented have changed my mind. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18212 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 3 is now closed.
Final results for Group D can be found here. As expected, all of the victories were blow-out wins, with Youko's win over Juna being the biggest of the lot. This may as much a case of no one specifically voting against her as actually having the weakest competition or being one of the strongest competitors, though; Ashitaka, Kamina, and Simon all had votes specifically against them, and Simon in particular had a much more formidable opponent. Perhaps because of there were no close matches, we had the lowest vote turn-out of the tournament; only 22 votes, not counting one person DQed for not giving any reasons. So Round 4 is coming up next, and that means a new round of video clips. It also means that the decisions are only getting tougher, as unlike in previous tournaments, I honestly think that we don't have a single weak competitor in the Top 16; no one skated in here only on the strength of weak competition, and all are (in my opinion at least) worthy of being here. It's also worth noting that 15 of the 16 seeds advanced; the sole exception is Luffy's win over Ai, and that isn't much of an upset given that Luffy was only a couple of places out of the seeding. (He would have been #18 had I gone down that low.) And now it's time for my traditional Power Rankings! As in previous tournaments, these rankings are solely based on % of possible votes earned, with difficulty of competition only figuring in cases of tiebreakers (and we do have one). 1. Kenshin, 93.5% 2. Duck/Tutu, 92.8% 3. Balsa, 88.2% 4. Youko Nakajima, 87% 5. Kamina, 85.7% 6. Nausicaa, 85.1% 7. Shu Maritani, 82.6% 8. Kurau, 81.9% 9. Simon, 79.2% 10. Monkey D. Luffy, 78.31% 11. Dr. Tenma, 78.26% 12. Ashitaka, 76.6% 13. Onizuka, 71.8% 14. Goku, 70.7% 15. Vash, 68.2% 16. Utena, 68.2% Does this reflect the relative durability of characters? That's for you to decide. Next round should be up soon; I just have to finish double-checking a couple of the video clips. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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No, I don't think the power rankings do accurately reflect how well candidates are going to do. For example, I don't think Kenshin will win it, though he'll probably go far. Also, Youko has had some easy competition, so she is ranked far higher than she deserves.
And YES, for once I get a perfect score for my Minigame. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Hm, judging by mini-game predictions, Shu vs Goku looks to be the only close match of Round 4, although Vash has been drastically under performing by that standard, so his clash with Utena may end up being close.
Mini-game results: Overall, people did their best since the end of round 1, with 7 people correctly guessing all 4 winners. Ranking remains mostly unchanged from last round, with Key (1) maintaining a slight lead over Mad_Scientist (2) and Olliff (3) at three and four points back. Mow holds onto fourth just a four points behind Olliff, and abunai rounds out the top 5. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18212 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 4 Group A is now closed.
Last round saw a fair number of blow-outs, but I think we'll see less of that this round. Really, out of the eight matches in this round I can only see one or two not being significantly contested. And we start out with a couple of interesting ones in this group, too! Both Kenshin and Dr. Tenma have been much-lauded, but which is truly more worthy? Let's find out! As before, new video clips can be found on the Guide pages for each contestant. And as before, justifications are required for votes. And now, without further ado. . . Group A-29 Kenshin Himura, Ruroni Kenshin franchise vs. Dr. Kenzou Tenma, Monster Winner: Kenshin Total: 20-7 Group A-30 Goku, Dragonball franchise vs. Shu Maritani, Now and Then, Here and There Winner: Shu Total: 27-0 - FLAWLESS VICTORY!!! Last edited by Key on Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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Agreed, while the power rankings are an interesting analysis to look at I believe that they cannot be an accurate tool to judge the strength of the remaining contenders. While the 16 seed system is a substantial improvement over the last tournament in terms of balance, some contenders still have faced much easier or harder competition than others. For example, I believe that Youko is over-represented in the poll while Simon is significantly underrated. More than anything, I believe it due to strength of competition faced and not due to a genuine underestimation. I would honestly be surprised if Simon didn't at least make it to the final four despite only being ranked on the power rankings. However, I do believe that the power rankings did a good job of identifying the weakest two characters. And strangely enough they will also be facing each other next round as well. Also, I can't say the power ranking did too bad of job near the top as well as I am also certain that this tournament's winner will be one of the top three characters on this list despite the fact that more people picked Vash to win than any other character. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18212 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Might as well vote right away. . .
Group A-29 Kenshin Himura, Ruroni Kenshin franchise vs. Dr. Kenzou Tenma, Monster A tough pick for me because this is the one match this round where I haven't seen either series. Both characters are heavily-respected in fandom and have had strong arguments in their favor, but Kenshin's reputation seems a little stronger. Group A-30 Goku, Dragonball franchise vs. Shu Maritani, Now and Then, Here and There Now is the place and time to start nitpicking on flaws, and unfortunately for Goku he does have some traits vulnerable to nitpicking. For all his heroism, there's no denying that Goku has, on occasion, acted recklessly enough that he has indirectly endangered others, and on other occasions has done some incredibly (and detrimentally) stupid things. While Shu does act recklessly, too, his behavior of that sort is still firmly in the spirit of heroism and the strength of his conviction is undeniable. His first clip showed him in heroic action, while this clip shows his unwavering commitment to principles and to try to make others see how wrong the world has become. In short, Goku has weaknesses that Shu doesn't have, and that's why Shu will win. |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3889 Location: New York state. |
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Match A-29: Kenshin Himura
Kenshin faced hardships for a longer period of time than Dr. Tenma as Kenshin was fighting for a woman he loved, a war where he sided with the Meiji rebels that brought a new era to Japan, and protecting a new group of friends that despite his reputation from said war, he stays with and protects them. Match A-30: Shu Maritani I'm gonna go along with dtm's arguments with the last round regarding my opposition to Goku. The guy makes a number of foolish decisions that further jeopardize the safety of the universe and the Dragon Balls allow him to keep treating the people of Earth as play things whenever they go boom. If anyone dies from a baddie that Goku couldn't just defeat himself if he's so powerful and skilled, than they can just get wished back to life. Shu, on the other hand, is in a more brutal situation. He's in a brutal post-apocalyptic future with no superpowers and his human morals are put to the test thanks to Hellywood. He endures torture, refuses to willingly become one of Hellywood's military tools, helps restore Lala-ru's faith in humanity, and never spoiler[takes a living life] despite all the bloodshed that a kid his age was exposed to. I'm gonna give my support to Shu this round. Last edited by Ggultra2764 on Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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