Forum - View topicCode Geass - ending.
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Mr.Baginki
Posts: 5 |
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I just watch code Geass series for the second time. I picked up on a lot things that I lost before. what really hit me was the ending.
*spoilers* spoiler[Its a really bittersweet ending to the series but something I caught that bugged me was something that C.C said. The very last lines of the series she says something along the lines... "isn't that right Lelouch? So I the light bulb over my head turns on. CC talked to Lelouch's mother even though she was "dead." Is Lelouch know in C's world, in a way is he still alive????] Thoughts, Theories? Also how do you think the series should have ended because I have some ideas..... [Edit: Please use proper spoiler tags in the future, thanks. - Keonyn] |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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Well, many people have been debating this issue for a couple of years all over the web.
Nobody really knows, but you can find arguments in favor of either possibility. Personally, I think the evidence both in and outside the actual show indicates spoiler[Lelouch is most likely dead and C.C. is just using a figure of speech] but that's just one possible interpretation. You're free to believe in whatever you want to believe. The final word is: it's all up to Sunrise (the animation studio). If they ever make a direct sequel (and I hope they don't), perhaps the creators will decide to settle this discussion once and for all. So far, we do know that there is an upcoming anime project -Code Geass Gaiden- but it will be a side story set in Europe around the time of the first season and shouldn't have anything to do with this matter. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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The creators in particular Ichiro Okouchi has always stated that Lelouch is spoiler[dead. In particular the official Code Geass states that Lelouch is dead in five different places]
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Bento-Box
 Posts: 1049 Location: Florida |
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As in spoiler[they stated in in 5 different places] or he's spoiler[literally been killed in 5 different locations] OR he's spoiler[been stabbed 5 times.] Or all of the above. 
I kinda found the statement amusing... It's almost 6:00 a.m. here and I'm just not all there... My favorite part of what you said:
I totally know what you meant, but it cracked me up. Thanks for the laugh first thing in the morning. 
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Oh, no, it just means that spoiler[5 parts of Lelouch died. I surely hope that doesn't include a vital organ because then it'd be lethal.] Code Geass is a gold mine. Whatever the creator says can be changed with a few bank account numbers. |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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I don't think it's necessary to suggest that much though. For one thing, it's already clear that the property itself isn't going to go away anytime soon. After all, we wouldn't be getting spin-offs if that wasn't the case. And for another, in the hypothetical event that something needs to be retroactively changed, that can always be easily accomplished by someone else without too much effort. |
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gundam83
 Posts: 93 Location: Caribbean |
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People actually want to change the ending! I thought the ending was perfect!
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Mr.Baginki
Posts: 5 |
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I guess the end is up to interpretation. I want to think he is alive in some sense. Just like his mother was
Yes I would agree that the ending was perfect for so many reasons. For example Lelouch atoned for his sins But this bugged me about the ending. Bear with me... He did not fulfill his contract to C.C. I would assume his geass was powerful enough to fulfill her wish and kill her. If he did that he would become immortal. So consider this -- In a way Lelouch failed in creating the world his sister wanted because she wanted to spend it with Lelouch. If Lelouch was immortal he could still pull of his stunt at the end of the series and have zero assassinate him. However he would still come back to life and he could live with his sister in secret. Do you get what I am saying??? Last edited by Mr.Baginki on Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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But what you are saying is too intelligent for the level of writing that Code Geass R2 displayed. You can't really blame the writers for going withspoiler[ "let's have our hero bring world peace with his death even though said peace would last but a few years with the idiot Black Knights in charge". Sure, Lelouch wanted to atone for his sins (namely, Euphemia), but that in itself is bad writing, since he could have atoned better had he actually lived his life and governed benignly over the world. Dying young is the coward's way out, and Euphemia wouldn't have wanted it.] As for gathering all of spoiler[the world's hate upon himself, why not just make Charles and Schniezel the villains, which they genuinely were? When Lelouch assumed power he did so using geass on the Britannian hierarchy, yes. But he had the backing of most of the countries of the world, and was busy making a sort of United Nations-type deal. He could have ruled without further use of geass, given how intelligent and popular he was. Then he goes and throws it all away. Stupid.] |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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I don't expect that any of us will change our opinions, but presenting an alternative interpretation should be fair enough.
Rather than calling all of the writing uniformly unintelligent, I believe that at least on a conceptual level it's a matter of the writers wanting to focus on idealism and a specific set of themes at the expense of realism and plausibility. That has less to do with intelligence and more to do with creative choice, despite its admittedly rushed and sloppy execution. Or, if you want to put it another way, for me the bad writing lies in the fact that it wasn't pulled off convincingly or carefully enough, yes, but not because the actual line of thought is inherently reprehensible or indefensible as a whole, in the context of what the story had already done.
I'd say that's a value judgment. There is no such thing as an objectively "wrong" way of seeking atonement but simply ways we can either agree or disagree with. I don't actually share the rationale behind Lelouch's decision myself but would argue that it is largely consistent with some of the thought processes and emotional states previously displayed by the character. Which brings me to my next point.
Intelligence doesn't make anyone immune to a degree of irrationality that comes from emotional distress and psychological complexes. There would have been other alternatives, by all means, if Lelouch wasn't so broken and guilt-ridden by then. Not what I would have done, but then again we all have the benefit of being external observers, far removed from both the characters themselves and the show's staff. |
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Mr.Baginki
Posts: 5 |
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When it all comes down to it I am glad that the series ended
The ending gave closure to the story, more or less. But I am glad it ended because... well it ended!!!! Too many animes never have endings they just go on and on and on, creating new half-baked villains and stories. Code Geass is just the right length for a series. Yes there are some things that could (and should) have happened differently. But overall its one of the best anime's ever made in my opinion. If you think about it, an ending of the story is the hardest thing to write. It's near impossible to satisfy everyone. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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I understand that but the fact of the matter is that most of the series is very cynical with pretty much the entire cast being a bunch of bastards. The ending wants us to believe in the inner good of people, but frankly whenever a good person did appear they either became corrupted or died. It reminded me of Mai-Hime where apparently at the last second the Director and Writer decided to have a happy ending. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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I think it’s rather the changed time slot, Lulu’s actions in the last episodes would make sense, had spoiler[Nunnally perished*. His suicidal action would be justified, since his goal was to make a better world for her, without her it would be understandable why he doesn’t care about anything and anyone, but to make him die like that when his ultimate goal can be attained is not a good idea. Besides, if Nunnally had perished, then this sloppy excuse about his trying to atone for his sins would not be needed.] I still think CG R2 was gundamise to make it more appealing to the new audience. *Granted, in the first season there were characters that were brought back to live, but they were minor and spoiler[Nunnally's death would turn an unconvincing ending into a plausible one.] |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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A fair amount of this is old news, really, but one or two thoughts might be new. There's only a handful of people I'd consider true "bastards" as opposed to ignorant or misguided. I don't want to generalize too much, because some nuances are going to be lost along the way, but it's true we saw the most innocent or naive individuals change or die. The thing is, they were usually portrayed in a positive or at least tragic light, as constructive influences whose loss was unfortunate and morally reprehensible. It's clear that the series deals with the struggle between cynicism and idealism. It gives a lot of the spotlight to the former but ultimately tends to favor the latter...and not as an unexpected development but in a way that reflects the internal conflicts of Lelouch and even -to a lesser extent- Suzaku. That right there is an acknowledgment of the existence of an "inner good" that makes idealism possible in the first place: without it, there would be no conflict. Lelouch's main motivation is idealistic and rather selfless, at heart, even if his methods are cynical or hypocritical and egocentric. He aims to bring about an ideal (a "kind world" for his sister) through the use of cynical tools like lies and manipulation that create an inescapable tension or dissonance between his actions and his own goal. This tension tortures him, particularly when things go wrong, and takes a heavy toll...but doesn't stop Lelouch from charging forward. What the ending does, conceptually, is take all of the above and run with it to one of several possible extremes, providing a resolution that might be temporary for the world but is surely permanent (either way) for the tortured individual who came up with it. It depends on your perception though. One of the biggest problems with making the above convincing, to be quite honest, has to do with the issue of keeping the characters likable. It's always a challenge to convince the audience that characters can, in fact, make unpopular or even outright irrational choices for a reason. After all, viewers are external observers and many expect "good" characters to always "do the right thing" or make the best possible choice, more often than not, lest they be accused of being stupid or "out of character." The creators need to do a lot of lobbying in order to sell a counterintuitive outcome, by justifying it or at least explaining why. Doing that well requires a fair amount of time and attention to detail but, instead, we got one twist after another and the explanations were usually missing, too sketchy or controversial. As a result, unconvincing choices lead to disillusion or disinterest, among other things. That's one reason why I understand not buying into the whole idealism of the ending, because the process that led us there left a lot to be desired, even if I believe a fair amount of the logic behind it can always be reconstructed and comprehended...without needing to be in full agreement.
I don't doubt that, but the difference is I believe this doesn't prevent the series and its ending from making a certain amount of sense despite being the result of a less than optimal production process. For me, "making sense" is not equal to "being right" or "providing useful advice for real life" and so on and so forth. The thing is, Lelouch is trying to do two things at once: accomplish his goal and, quite literally, pay for it. And well, I still think spoiler[Nunnally's survival] was a bad idea but not beyond the realm of possibility. |
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Mr.Baginki
Posts: 5 |
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Good thread guys thanks!!!!
If I liked this anime what other ones would you suggest to watch??? |
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