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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 25661
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:14 am Reply with quote
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If I had to give an opinion on it, I guess I'd say "Date A Live is really, really, really, really stupid, doesn't seem to be aware of that, and thus doesn't deserve your time or attention". But you probably knew that already.


Really? You actually think the makers of Date A Live don't realize they are making a comedy? You think they intended to play their premise straight? Jesus, even by normal Zac standards that's lazy reviewing. A person may not find Date A Live's comedy funny - that's fair enough (although I do). But to assert that they aren't aware of what kind of show they are making is just moronic.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:19 am Reply with quote
Date a Live is totally self aware, from the standard imouto at the beginning to the whole Dating puppet show thing at the end. Hell, the upcoming PS3 game (which I really hope gets localized since its Compile Heart and NISA brings over nearly all their stuff) looks to be a parody on the dating sim and harem genres too, with all kinds of things making fun of them while also embracing them. I like shows that can laugh at themselves like that.
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giseki



Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 54
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:41 am Reply with quote
aku no hana looked pretty interesting...the rotoscoped? characters and finely detailed backgrounds were a bit jarring at first but got over it...the music was.. interesting too.

looking forward to see where it goes.

nice to see japanese people in anime for once.
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Lynx Amali





PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:45 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Majestic Prince is based on a manga by Rando Ayamine, who also penned Getbackers. You wouldn't really be able to tell, though, because all of the character designs have been Hisashi Hirai-ified. Meaning, if you've seen such shows like Gundam Seed, Infinite Ryvius, or Fafner, then you've seen this guy's monotonous, one-trick character designs parading in front of your eyeballs like a Vine loop. Gone are Ayamine's perky little noses and expressive eyes, replaced with a sea of noseless, dopey faces that seemingly melt from their own ennui.


I've already read a few volumes of the manga. While I'm not that big of a fan of same-face Hirai, (a) these are more S-cry-ed face than anything and (b) the original character designs were pretty bad. If anything, I'd say it's a reverse Linebarrels. in that aspect The original Linebarrel character designs were amazing and distinct. Hirai came around though and just really swapped the positioning on the face and swapped the hair.

In this case, I'd (regretfully) say the character designs are actually BETTER.

Anyway;
Date a Live: This...was actually pretty good. I like the idea, the soundtrack was pretty good and the characters, while typical, were actually kind of interesting. Genuinely interested to see where it goes. (No, I haven't the source material on this one.)

Samurai Bride: More Samurai Girls. That's all I need to say.
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 3282
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:09 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
I certainly wouldn't dispute at all the impropriety of taking upskirt shots. But what about just ordinary shots of a pretty girl/woman in a public place, such as (to use the example again from PK) the rhythmic dancer doing her routine? If specific permission hasn't been asked first, then does that also qualify as "not treating the woman (or man, for that matter - let's not be gender-biased here) as a person"? The attitude that I seem to be getting from people here is that the answer to that is "yes, it qualifies as immoral," which would seem to lead to the conclusion that "any picture taken of anyone that isn't done as a pose or in a setting where permission to take photos is implicit (such as athletes engaged in a sporting event with a public audience) is immoral." And if I am engaging in hyperbole, then can someone who is fairly sensitive on this issue spell out where, exactly, he/she draws the line on this?


I can't comment on Photo Kano, but in general, this is where I draw the line.

Assuming the subject is in a public place:
1. Is the photo being taken for less-than-honest purposes i.e. eye-candy? You better ask first.
2. Is the photographer taking advantage of an angle to get said shot that the average person would not see (i.e. birds-eye or under)? You better ask first.
3. Is the photo being taken for the school yearbook, has no sexual undertones, and the photographer is hoping to get a candid? Let people know (if a small group) before the event so they can opt out of having their photo taken. If an individual, show them the shot after its taken with the option of deleting it.

My personal stance on the matter is individuals, regardless of what they're wearing, whether they are attractive, what they are doing, should not be subject of photography, whether secretly or wantonly, for the express purpose of sexualizing them without their consent.

Again, I cannot speak on Photo Kano as I have not watched it and plan to do so before forming an opinion. However, since the question posed was in the form of real-to-life situations, I hope this illustrates how I, and perhaps how some of the other commentators, might feel.
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 5588
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:20 am Reply with quote
getchman wrote:
never thought Photokano would be the show to blow up this forum. Perhaps it might be best to wait and see what he does with his situation, since this really wasn't a good first episode.


I bet Flowers of Evil will overshadow that and everything else once it gets officially released for simulcast. I don't think I've ever seen an anime adaptation that did such a radical take on the character designs especially compared to the original manga designs. It'll be an interesting experience and experiment, that's for sure.
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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 740
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:32 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
I certainly wouldn't dispute at all the impropriety of taking upskirt shots. But what about just ordinary shots of a pretty girl/woman in a public place, such as (to use the example again from PK) the rhythmic dancer doing her routine? If specific permission hasn't been asked first, then does that also qualify as "not treating the woman (or man, for that matter - let's not be gender-biased here) as a person"?


I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand Fence's objections. Taking photographs without the subject's permission is creepy. If the protagonist wanted to take pictures of the gymnast, he could have asked for permission before she began her routine. If he arrived after she began, oh well, shit sucks. People's comfort takes precedence over protagonist's photography any day of the week. It's just common sense.

In your continued example, it's not as though these were actually yearbook photos. But even so, I'm someone who hates having her picture taken and will opt out whenever possible, including candid shots. If you were fluttering around me when I'm trying to have fun, taking pictures of me, yes, I would be upset.
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Draneor



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 355
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:44 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
If specific permission hasn't been asked first, then does that also qualify as "not treating the woman (or man, for that matter - let's not be gender-biased here) as a person"?

In general, males aren't subject to creep shots nor has it been historically a problem. I'm sure it sucks if you're that one guy who it happened to, but I'm not interested in outliers. There are some issues women experience that most men don't. Making it gender neutral downplays that.

Key wrote:
And if I am engaging in hyperbole, then can someone who is fairly sensitive on this issue spell out where, exactly, he/she draws the line on this?

To me, the key question is why is the photo being taken. No one is arguing taking photos of your classmates on a field drip for the yearbook is wrong. If you took the photo because you thought a girl was cute, that cross the line. If you zoomed in on her chest or butt, that was wrong.

That's why a news organization filming people walking on the street is fine, but when a news organization takes footage focusing entirely on the breasts of women walking down the street for women's day--that's wrong. Context matters and I think using a little common sense regarding what the intent of the photo is is not too much to ask. And if you're uncertain, ask.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:57 am Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:


My main beef with Oreimo is that Kirino is insanely unrealistic. She's a male otaku in a chick's body.

We ALL know she'd be a fujoshi in real life. If she was in the actual story, I'd be all over it, but no, she plays siscon eroge for some bizarre reason--oh, wait, it's because fujoshi aren't hot to neckbeards, that's why.


You do realize that there's a fujoshi character in the show, right? Also, she's awesome.


Key wrote:
I certainly wouldn't dispute at all the impropriety of taking upskirt shots. But what about just ordinary shots of a pretty girl/woman in a public place, such as (to use the example again from PK) the rhythmic dancer doing her routine? If specific permission hasn't been asked first, then does that also qualify as "not treating the woman (or man, for that matter - let's not be gender-biased here) as a person"? The attitude that I seem to be getting from people here is that the answer to that is "yes, it qualifies as immoral," which would seem to lead to the conclusion that "any picture taken of anyone that isn't done as a pose or in a setting where permission to take photos is implicit (such as athletes engaged in a sporting event with a public audience) is immoral." And if I am engaging in hyperbole, then can someone who is fairly sensitive on this issue spell out where, exactly, he/she draws the line on this?


I see official event photographs as something different, provided they are people doing group/public activities. It's more or less understood that people are going to be taking pictures of that stuff. They should still be asking permission if one or a couple of people are the subjects, the clear focus of the shot, rather than a large group (and I think they generally ask in those cases). Exception for sporting *events* (not practice, especially if they're not aware anyone is watching) such as gymnasts performing in a competition or someone crossing the finish line, etc.

But the characters in this show are not the yearbook club and they're not doing it for the sake of their classmates and their memories, they're very blatant about their prurient motives.

Key wrote:
EDIT: Regardless of the answer to the above, I think the vastly differing viewpoints on Photo Kano come down to this: some are seeing this as a salacious-focused exercise, while others (like me) are seeing at as a more pure "love of the camera" exercise weighted down a bit by a bunch whose take on "love of the camera" skews towards the mildly salacious side.


It's very much the selling point to its audience. As in, that's a big part of the show's intent. You're "seeing it as much more pure" is simply an ignoring of the more salacious side.


I really don't feel like subjecting myself to watching the episode again in length and the precise number or percentage of photos that were fanservicey doesn't matter, there quite a few of them and they clearly won't be a one episode thing. While he claims he doesn't want to do that stuff when pressed on which club to join, its hard to think he really believes that given his reaction at 16:05. And, you know, that's the club he ends up joining.

I'd like to add that the show really has nothing going for it outside of the salacious photography either. The main character is a typical bland cardboard cutout and most of the girls aren't much better. There's a few that have a bit of potential and I might have been willing to watch a bit more of if not for, as I've mentioned before, the show's pedigree and the offensive elements. Even without the offensive elements it would still be the worst first episode of the season.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:21 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
You do realize that there's a fujoshi character in the show, right? Also, she's awesome.


Yes, but the fact that Kirino herself is a siscon is just...baffling. She's a male otaku in a chick's body.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:27 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Quote:
If I had to give an opinion on it, I guess I'd say "Date A Live is really, really, really, really stupid, doesn't seem to be aware of that, and thus doesn't deserve your time or attention". But you probably knew that already.


Really? You actually think the makers of Date A Live don't realize they are making a comedy? You think they intended to play their premise straight? Jesus, even by normal Zac standards that's lazy reviewing. A person may not find Date A Live's comedy funny - that's fair enough (although I do). But to assert that they aren't aware of what kind of show they are making is just moronic.


Yeah, I'm a real goddamn idiot for not realizing the brilliant satire of Date A Live. There's just so much self-aware winking and genius parody in there, how could I not realize it?!
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getchman
He started it



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 9197
Location: New Hampshire
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:33 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:

Yeah, I'm a real goddamn idiot for not realizing the brilliant satire of Date A Live. There's just so much self-aware winking and genius parody in there, how could I not realize it?!


s'ok, happens to everyone at some point
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3820
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:47 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Of course, it would also be completely logical for her to be gay. But we can't have that now can we?


With the (creepy) popularity of KyousukexKirino it'll be a cold day in hell before that'll happen.

Like it would matter, though, given that Oreimo is a harem and therefore Kyousuke will forever be beta and never actually do anything proactive. Gotta stretch that plot out over multiple volumes to make big bank.


should I really spoil what I know of the series so far?? Do you really want to know what is going to happen because a part of me wants to ruin everyone's fun.


Last edited by Cecilthedarkknight_234 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:48 pm Reply with quote
Obviously you should not.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:


Yeah, I'm a real goddamn idiot for not realizing the brilliant satire of Date A Live. There's just so much self-aware winking and genius parody in there, how could I not realize it?!


You don't have to like it, but saying the show isn't self-aware is just blatantly wrong.
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