Forum - View topicGeneral Questions / Identifying Anime.
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Beltane70
 Posts: 4197 |
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That could just be Japan doing things its own way unique since even Ghost in the Shell uses the term "section" with Maj. Kusanagi being a member of Public Security Section 9. Just look at how Japan uses a lot of English words completely differently from how native English speakers would. |
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nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5226 |
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I thought that I had rated this one anime awhile ago; but I did not and now I cannot recall the title -- it's driving me bonkers.
It's fairly recent. It's set in China (late 1800s?). A young woman, who is an herbalist, is kidnapped and sold into the Forbidden City. Almost every episode involves her solving some kind of mystery. |
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Gina Szanboti
 Posts: 12794 |
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Sounds like The Apothecary Diaries. You were so close to it with "herbalist"!
Think of it with this definition: a major unit or section of an organization, typically one handling a particular kind of work; "Division of Parks and Recreation." Since such units are classified by function rather than staff numbers, it can apply to a small unit like Div. 2. |
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nobahn
Subscriber Posts: 5226 |
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THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU.    
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 25674 |
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@ Gina Szanboti: interestingly enough, in one of the DVD extras (I believe it was the tribute to Kanuka Clancy) the subtitles used Section 2, Unit 2 as opposed to Section 2, Division 2. I think Unit 2 is a better term.
@nobahn: The Apothecary Diaries is a recent favourite of mine. Thoroughly enjoyed it. What is your rating? I rated it as Excellent. |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10383 Location: Virginia |
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@Blood- it is possible that what is bothering you on this section/division/unit etc. is a translation artifact. The translator may be less clear on how the English terms are used. To really solve this you would have to go back to the Japanese words and see how they are used in a military or police setting.
I've often thought that an actual useful extra would be the translator discussing translation choices. Of course that would draw would be experts out of the air like flies to a honey jar. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 25674 |
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You're right, Alan45 - such an extra would be fascinating, but hoo-boy I can just picture the debates that would arise between the pro-localization camps and the "authentics" who hold that translations need to be absolutely literal even if that means the translation in the new language is complete gibberish.
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nobahn
Subscriber Posts: 5226 |
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I rated it at 11/11 (Masterpiece) for the following:
Apparently, I have run afoul of the ratings algorithm for having rated too many Encyclopedia entries at 11/11 because the statistics numbers do not change any after I have made a rating. Oh, well; it is what it is..... |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 25674 |
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I entirely agree with your reasoning above, nobahn!
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10383 Location: Virginia |
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@nobahn
I strongly recommend The Apothecary Diaries manga, and if you are so inclined the light novel version. They provide additional details and more time with your favorite lead character. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6697 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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I prefer to think of Masterpiece as 10/10 and Worst Ever as 0/10, but your Spinal Tap measurement has its appeal. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 12794 |
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But there are 11 ratings categories. So it confuses me when people say they rate things x/10.
5.0 - A Masterpiece 4.5 - Excellent 4.0 - Very Good 3.5 - Good 3.0 - Decent 2.5 - So-so 2.0 - Not really good 1.5 - Weak 1.0 - Bad 0.5 - Awful 0.0 - Worst ever |
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Cam0
 Posts: 4978 |
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I dunno if I'm misunderstanding something here but if you do like Errinundra and think of Worst ever as 0/10 (I do too), then it works out just fine. The Encyclopedia ratings here seem to work on a 0 to 10 rating scale (presumably, since we'll probably never see an Encyclopedia entry with an overall rating below 1 I can't say for sure if the rating can go below 1) so it makes sense for people to think in terms of x/10. 10 - Masterpiece 9 - Excellent 8 - Very Good 7 - Good 6 - Decent 5 - So-so 4 - Not really good 3 - Weak 2 - Bad 1 - Awful 0 - Worst ever |
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shosakukan
Posts: 386 |
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In the Japanese version of Patlabor, the name of the unit which Gotō Kiichi commands is '警視庁 特殊車輌二課 第2小隊'. In J-E translation, the term '小隊' is usually translated as 'platoon'. In the Japan Ground Self-Defence Force, if you include the platoon commander's tank out, usually a tank platoon (小隊) is composed of 2 or 3 tanks. So when Gotō's unit, which has two large mechas (two Patrol Labours), is categorised as 小隊 in the Japanese version, it is not unnatural. As to '二課', there might be kind of a problem. As I have said, Patlabor was created by the Headgear group, and manga-ka Yūki Masami is a founding member of Headgear, and the original plan of Patlabor was done by Yūki Masami. Yūki Masami also wrote and illustrated the manga version of Patlabor. In the early part of the Patlabor manga, there is a scene where a policeman explains the organisation of the Security Bureau of the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department to students (including Izumi Noa) of police academies. The organisational chart of the Security Bureau which the policeman wrote on a whiteboard reflects the real-life organisation of the Security Bureau of the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department to some extent, and the organisational chart indicates that the Patrol Labour unit is an offshoot from the original Special Vehicle unit. Whilst the name of the Patrol Labour unit is going to become 特車二課 (if we translate 課 as 'section' like the below-mentioned sleeve notes) the 2nd Special Vehicle Section, the name of the original Special Vehicle unit is going to become the 1st Special Vehicle Section. As I have said, in the real world, the Special Vehicle unit of the Security Bureau uses police armoured cars. So also in the diegesis of Patlabor, the 1st Special Vehicle Section may use police armoured cars. In the Security Bureau of the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department in the real world, the number of the personnel of 警護課 (the VIP protection section) is approx.300. In the Criminal Investigation Bureau, the number of the personnel of 捜査第一課 (the 1st criminal investigation section) in the real world is more than 400. Thus in the organisation of the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department, a unit which is categorised as 課 (ka) is usually rather a large unit. In the diegesis of Patlabor, although it has the word '課' in the unit's name, the Patrol Labour unit, which is merely an offshoot from the main Special Vehicle unit, seems not to be a that large unit, even if we add the mechanics and the 'company headquarters' to Gotō's and Nagumo's 'platoons'. Since the Patrol Labour unit uses large special mechas (Patrol Labours), it may be treated differently and may have been categorised as 課, even though it is number of personnel-wise smaller than, say, 捜査第一課 (the 1st criminal investigation section), however. As to the term '課', in J-E translation, '課' is often translated as 'section'. Manga-ka Hirokane Kenshi wrote and illustrated the '課長島耕作' manga, a well-known and popular manga about a white-collar worker who works for a large corporation, and the '課長' part of the title is usually translated as 'section chief'. On the jacket of the VHS cassette of Patlabor: The Movie released by Bandai Visual and Tōhoku Shinsha, there is a piece of English text, and it is 'Planning and story by HEADGEAR, Conceptual Works by YUUKI MASAMI, Screenplay by KAZUNORI ITO......In order to curb such crimes from happening one after another, the Metropolitan Police Department has established a special department, the "Special Vehicle Section No.2". It consists of company of patrol "LABOR" known as PATLABOR' So the translator for Headgear/Bandai Visual/Tōhoku Shinsha has translated '課' as 'Section' already in 1989. (On a side note, when the translator wrote, 'It consists of company of patrol "LABOR"...,' what he/she intended to express in his/her mind might have been 'Special Vehicle Section No.2 is a company which is composed of two Patrol Labour platoons,' or something along those lines.) The sleeve notes of the Maiden Japan edition of the Original OVA Series Patlabor Blu-ray Disc says, '...the motley crew of Section 2, Division 2....' So the writer of the English sleeve notes wrote '小隊' as 'Division'. Since the English sub of the Disc says, 'Section 2, Second Unit,' the English sub translator translated '小隊' as 'Unit'. As to how the English word 'division' is used in a military or police setting in Japan, in military contexts, in the case of the Japan Ground Self-Defence Force, a division is a unit which has approx.6500-7000 soldiers. In police-related contexts, the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department translates '課' as 'division'. So '捜査第一課' is 'the 1st Criminal Investigation Division', and it has more than 400 police detectives. Therefore the term 'division' means rather a large unit both in military contexts and in police-related contexts in Japan, and if we see the situation from this viewpoint, Gotō's unit's being called 'Division' would be rather odd. I wonder why he/she chose the word 'division' when the translator for the companies concerned translated the term '小隊' into English in Patlabor-related text. I remember that in Blue Thunder (1983, dir. by John Badham) there is a scene where in a conversation a staffer for a TV station erroneously thinks the 'ASTRO' part of the 'ASTRO Division' is the surname of the protagonist, who is a helicopter pilot for the police. Real-life LAPD's Air Support Division seems to be quite a large unit. The Security Bureau of the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department also has the '機動隊' units. The term '機動隊' is often translated as a 'riot squad', but it is also translated as a 'mobile police unit'. The name of the units '機動隊' and its translation 'mobile police units' may have influenced the title of the anime/manga becoming '機動警察パトレイバー Mobile Police Patlabor'. Also in the case of 機動戦士ガンダム Mobile Suit Gundam, the '機動' part of the title is translated as 'Mobile'. Roughly speaking, the term '機動' means that an armed force speedily moves and deploys units and weapons. |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10383 Location: Virginia |
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@shosakukan
That was really helpful. Thank you. |
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