Forum - View topicRE: "Full Circle" article
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GATSU
Posts: 16427 |
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Funny you didn't mention how Disney's last few movies have been "inspired" by anime. :roll:
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Ataru
 Posts: 2350 Location: Missouri (Strikeman) |
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Hmmm, I was watching Back to the Future II on Disney last night and they had "ads" talking about how they did Treasure Planet and they said it lossly based on Robert Louis Stevesons (I hope I got the name right. ^^;;; ) Treasure Island. Put the art work does look pretty sharp.
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Hotaru
Posts: 481 Location: NY |
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Ah, Disney's just a bunch of thiefs. They say that Atlantis isn't influenced by Nadia. Sure they were influenced by the same book, but the similarities are just TOO coincidental. Someone mentioned at our Disney Hater's group that the main character in Treasure Planet looks a lot like Trunks from DBZ. It's not that big a deal, but it's true.
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Craeyst Raygal
 Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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Ah, Hotaru, you forgot the whole Kimba the White Lion/Lion King debacle. I love how even Matt Groening pointed it out in the Simpsons in the episode where Bleeding Gums Murphy died.
"You must avenge me Kimba, I mean Simba." |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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GODA$#%T MOTHER&#@$&!?S. THIS IS MY WARNING THAT AN ANGRY RANT APPROACHETH.
DISNEY ISN'T "STEALING" ANYTHING. JESUS LEAPING CHRISTMAS, PEOPLE. The only, and I mean ONLY, anime that Disney will ever, and I mean EVER, watch is the films of Studio Ghibli. In my opinion, Atlantis shares more in common with Miyazaki's Laputa than Gainax's Nadia. And everybody is always bringing up that Lion King vs. Kimba thing: Well, y'know what? Kimba is old and dated. It was hardly a classic. You kids who are quick to point out how much a ripoff The Lion King was have probably never seen it. You will probably never see it. Because it is old, it is dated, the animation is rather bad, and the dubbing is wierd and incomprehensible. Therefore, it is rather bad of you to be criticising Lion King as a ripoff when you've never seen Kimba. I don't think anybody in this thread is above the age of, say, 25: Kimba was originally aired IN THE FREAKIN' 60'S. And, be honest, NONE OF YOU HAVE ANY INTEREST OF TRACKING DOWN RIGHT STUF'S OLD VHS VOLUMES AND WATCHING IT. You wanna know who watched Kimba? My mom. As a kid. I alerted her of Kimba and The Lion King's similarities one night. She said, "oh. Well, the Lion King was much, much better." And Trunks' design being ripped off for Treasure Planet?!? There're so many things wrong with that theory that I won't even bother. I will now sing the Kimba theme song: "Kimba. Kimba. Kimba. Kimba. Kimba. Kimba. Kimba!" |
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GATSU
Posts: 16427 |
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>In my opinion, Atlantis shares more in common with Miyazaki's >Laputa than Gainax's Nadia.
That's cus Nadia was originally a Miyazaki project, but he never got around to animating it. Anyway, don't get so defensive, Byron. Even if Disney didn't rip off those shows, I'm sure you can still agree that the company lacks any spark of originality; and it's because they seem to think that if they spend $100 million on each animated film, it's a guaranteed success. |
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ashram12
Posts: 86 |
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Although Kimba the white lion is an old cartoon, I actually saw it when I was a kid in the eighties (in France). Even though the whole thing really did look old, and the character design wasn't my cup of tea, I kept on watching the darn thing.
Now personally, I didn't really pay attention to the whole Kimba/ Simba thing. As far as I could remember, the only thing the two stories had in common was that they were about lions. But then I saw a preview of "Kimba" a couple of years ago in some anime video tape, and I noticed that some shots in Kimba looked very similar to some shots in the "Lion king". Even my sister, who is no anime lover, found the resemblance. So, personally, yes I think Disney was at the very least heavily inspired by "Kimba the white Lion". And what sickens about the whole thing is that, while the Japanese were nice to drop their lawsuit, if it had been the other way around, you can bet Disney wouldn't have been so nice. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Oh boy, this thread again.
"Someone mentioned at our Disney Hater's group" This really bothers me. You have an entire group devoted to hating something. You don't have anything better to do with your time? This is what frustrates me about otaku; you actually think that any opinions about Disney that come from a self-titled "Disney Haters group" would be considered valid or logical by ANYONE. I've made this conclusion before and I'll make it again; the Klu Klux Clan is a "Black People Haters Group". They make arguments with similar logic. I'll explain why anime fans like to sit around and bash Disney. Disney, in America, is the symbol of modern animation. They reinforce, time and time again, that animation is a family affair, or a children's one, and the continuously release films aimed at children and/or families. They are, in part, responsible for the attitude that cartoons are for children, since the public is by and large pretty foolish and will stereotype something instantly based on whatever mass media examples they happen to have. Disney is the most available example, thus people equate animation with Disney. Anime is Japanese cartoons. People who watch Japanese cartoons, which are, more often than not, aimed at teenagers and young college students. Anime fans embrace these series and subsequently recieve flack for it from the public because, after all, cartoons are for children. So they attack the source of this rumor endlessly. Since a lot of anime fans are, by and large, pretty foolish ("Jim Hawkins looks a lot like Trunks". He has a similar haircut. If you're going to reach so far as to even mention this sort of thing, then your arguments are going to be rendered invalid due to the sheer ridiculousness of your posts. There is a big difference between analyzing something for similarities and kneejerking to every tiny detail you can see that resembles anything you've ever seen in anime. The characters all wear shoes. They wear shoes in Ranma, too. Must mean Disney watched a bunch of Ranma episodes before animating Treasure Planet, right? The first part of your sig "Every man dies, but not every man lives...I'm not going there to die, I'm going to find out if I'm really alive.--Spike, Cowboy Bebop" is a line lifted directly from Braveheart. I suppose Cowboy Bebop is a complete waste of time and a piece of trash now because they stole dialogue (not only the dialogue, the tagline on the fricking POSTER) from an American movie, right?), they'll sit around and rip apart anything Disney does because Disney becomes a scapegoat for whatever ridiculous pathos requires them to give a crap what Joe Blow White Guy at Suncoast thinks of them for buying anime. Speaking of which, now that anime is mainstream and it's all over the place and people know it isn't just porn and that cartoons can be for adults too, isn't this argument a little outdated? Re: Gatsu's comment about Disney not having any creativity left in it. I'd say you should watch Lilo & Stitch, but you've proven time and time again that you don't have the precious moments to actually put thought in to any of your anti-Disney arguments or even do the slightest bit of research on the company itself, or perhaps watch one of their films without putting your Anti-Disney hat on.. you know, try to at least see the other side of the argument rather than just spewing forth your ludicrous, reactionary "arguments" that amount to little more than hate speech (I'll keep drawing this comparison until you acknowlege that you're using the same logic as a racist.). I apologize for my harsh language but sometimes the sheer idiocy displayed on this web board makes me sick. Good day. -Zac |
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GATSU
Posts: 16427 |
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Zac: As I've said earlier, I could care less about whether Disney caters to children, since I'm well aware that they do that in Japan. My problems with them include their need to edit classics like Fantasia(see black centaur shining shoe) for the politically correct crowd, them sitting on and underpromoting Ghibli films(in the case of Spirited Away, taking AWAY theaters despite its success), them sitting on and butchering numerous Asian films including Avalon(see http://alliance.hellninjacommando.net/ for more info), and them dictating the content of their Miramax films, which goes against Miramax's original purpose to produce independent films.
As for Treasure Planet, I'd say it was more "inspired" by Matsumoto and Laputa myself. In regards to Bebop, I find it hard to believe fans wouldn't notice its American influence, as the titles of some episodes alone refer to American music styles. And until that hentai case in Texas gets resolved, Americans are free to impose their standards on which demographics are appropriate for animation and comics. "Gatsu's comment about Disney not having any creativity left in it. I'd say you should watch Lilo & Stitch," Didn't Lilo and Stitch borrow some of its animation style from Ghibli? :) "you know, try to at least see the other side of the argument rather than just spewing forth your ludicrous, reactionary "arguments" that amount to little more than hate speech (I'll keep drawing this comparison until you acknowlege that you're using the same logic as a racist.). " No a racist would expect less from the person they're attacking. I expect more from Disney. :wink: |
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Neilworms
 Posts: 155 Location: Chicago IL |
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Yes it did take some ques directly from Ghibli. For instance as a referance on the water in Lilo & Stich the animators watched Porco Rosso. This isn't like Atlantis where they tried to totally emulate Miyazaki's style (the over grown buildings, the flying creatures at the end, just not as detailed) but more of a common thing that animators do to get things done well.... look at refrence points whether in reality or in other films. (search the nausicaa ML you'll find the message about this) I willl agree with Zac about Lilo & Stich it was actually pretty good... shocking isn't it... After it was done I thought "That is not a Disney movie, Pixar must have gotten a 2D animation division."  Of course this is a fluke... a Disney film that was actually originally an idea of the director and not of Disney's suits.
Their are far more reasons for that... maybe some of the more fanboyish fans do that for that reason.... if you look at the Nausicaa ML lately a lot of the people who have been defending Disney all the way are mad at the company. You know why they are mad at the company? Because Disney had the perfect oppertunity to slowly roll out Spirited Away towards a wide release, and they didn't seize upon the oppertunity to do so at the critical juncture... There were theatres requesting Spirited Away, and Disney kept them from getting it!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? The only hope which is quite thin considering Disney's awful PR (where Jack Matthews had to wrestle the info from disney that Nausicaa.net would have liked a long time ago) told Matthews that they were planning on a bigger release only if their were oscars involved.... I still don't trust disney their track record is really bad for me ("Laputa Coming in Video in 1999" comes to mind). If disney at least opened a dialogue with Ghibli's fans we would be a bit less upset. I just hope that Eisner gets booted soon, word is good ol' Nephew Roy and another investor who originally supported Eisner is mad at him. In fact Eisner has a knack for making people mad at him, Steve Jobs (who will probably take Pixar to Dreaworks) and many others. His days may be numbered.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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What I love about the Spirited Away argument is that all of the complaining fanboy parties involved know precisely jack squat about film marketing, film financing, film production and film distribution. "Spirited Away" in America would ONLY work as a children's film. As a children's film, it's pretty slow and way, way too long. It lacks the cleverness of any recent Pixar film and the wit of even "Lilo & Stitch". It's a great movie, to be sure, but it isn't exactly blockbuster material. You release a film like Spirited Away in theaters to ensure robust DVD sales (which, by the way, is where a film makes about 99 percent of its profits, in case you didn't know that. Even a blockbuster theatrical run for Spirited Away would not have guaranteed success. Video determines profit, hands down.), make sure the critics see it so it gets its proper accolades, and then put it out on DVD for generations to enjoy. You people seem to think that marketing this film to everyone in America would have made it the next Titanic, when in reality, and I'm saying this after reading a LOT of textbooks and taking a LOT of film production and distribution classes, it would have been a colossal box office turkey.
-Zac |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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"Didn't Lilo and Stitch borrow some of its animation style from Ghibli?
"
Didn't Ghibli borrow its animation style from old Betty Boop cartoons? Didn't Betty Boop draw inspiration from the Lumiere Brothers films of the 1900s? Didn't the Lumiere Brothers draw inspiration from photographs taken by revolutionary french photographers in the 1800s? Oh my god! Everyone's a THIEF! -Zac |
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Neilworms
Posts: 155 Location: Chicago IL |
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lol
Two things to respond to this. First of all Disney should try to open a PR channel with Nausicaa.net so we could have at least understood the outline of their intentions (it took Jack Matthews to get that information). Secondly I was not calling for an instant wide release, but when the demand was at its peak I would hope that disney would rise to meet that demand. When it did well with 151 theatres increase the number to oh, 181 theatres, if it performs poorly at 181 then scale it back, if it does good scale it forward. Look at what "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" did with its theatre count, it continually increased it as demand rose. This is basic supply and demand theory, something that I think Disney didn't seem to get, or becuse of their bad PR I didn't know that disney had the option to expand but wanted to wait until oscar season before an annoyed film critic mangaged to get the info from disney. We were all told that disney was wanting to expand if theatre results were good, and the Per Theatre returns were compairable to much higher grossing movies. This is why I am annoyed at disney. |
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GATSU
Posts: 16427 |
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Neil: "This isn't like Atlantis where they tried to totally emulate Miyazaki's style"
I'm sure... "I willl agree with Zac about Lilo & Stich it was actually pretty good... shocking isn't it..." I'm sure it is. I still don't like the company though. When they put back the scene where Goofy is smoking on one of their dvd's, maybe I'll take them more seriously. Zac: "What I love about the Spirited Away argument is that all of the complaining fanboy parties involved know precisely jack squat about film marketing, film financing, film production and film distribution." Well I certainly would know better than to put a $100 million movie up against Harry Potter and James Bond. "Spirited Away" in America would ONLY work as a children's film. As a children's film, it's pretty slow and way, way too long." That's what I heard about Atlantis, and Disney took a bigger chance on that film. "It lacks the cleverness of any recent Pixar film and the wit of even "Lilo & Stitch"." The irony of your statement is that Pixar and Lilo and Stitch were inspired by Ghibli films. :) "It's a great movie, to be sure, but it isn't exactly blockbuster material." It's beaten the domestic box office record of every anime film that doesn't have 'mon at the end. In that sense, it's a blockbuster for its genre. "You release a film like Spirited Away in theaters to ensure robust DVD sales (which, by the way, is where a film makes about 99 percent of its profits, in case you didn't know that. Even a blockbuster theatrical run for Spirited Away would not have guaranteed success. Video determines profit, hands down.)" A movie which bombs in theaters but does well on home video is a recoup, not a success. "You people seem to think that marketing this film to everyone in America would have made it the next Titanic," I don't think anything could be the next Titanic for a while. But it would've made more money, especially since it did better than its brethren, Pokemon 4Ever, which had a higher theater count. " and I'm saying this after reading a LOT of textbooks and taking a LOT of film production and distribution classes, it would have been a colossal box office turkey." So from a marketing point of view, it's better to lose $200 million and a bunch of animators to home-grown productions than to take a chance on something that probably cost-at most-$50 million to license? "Didn't Ghibli borrow its animation style from old Betty Boop cartoons?" Yeah, but at least they had the decency to reference it in one of their movies instead of claiming it was their idea. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10539 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Actually, Disney continued to add theatres despite the film's falling per theatre average. They continued to add theatres right up until the point when, on one weekend, despite adding theatres (10% increase), the film's weekend gross fell dramatically (18%). That's when thatres started to get pulled. On that count, you're wrong. On the other hand, perhaps the per theatre average would not have fallen (or would not have fallen as much) had Disney marketed it a bit more. |
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