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ANNCast - Viewers Like You VII: Adviewnt Children


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Paploo



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1875
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:58 pm Reply with quote
Wow, sounds like this will be one super special ANNCast. Off to listen. I too need to watch more anime this week- I just haven't gotten around to it this week [C'mon Votoms Vol.3, I need to finish you 0_O]

edit- the stuff about the travel agency is fascinating stuff. Glad you guys covered this.

editedit- the post a picture of collection stuff is a fun idea- there's some threads here for that, but that'd make an interesting approach to the "what I just bought" threads that pop up.


Last edited by Paploo on Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:22 pm; edited 3 times in total
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_V_



Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 619
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:17 pm Reply with quote


(this image is what I'm quoting when I first appear on the podcast)
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1726
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:19 pm Reply with quote
I mostly focused on listening to the talk with Sal about super niches, but I found it really cool to listen to. The whole "Take a picture of your purchase" idea sounds kind of silly and crazy, but it really is crazy enough to work to certain point, especially if there's a point you want to make. I do e-mail companies directly or use their contact forms when I feel the need to talk to them (it's also pretty much the only way to talk to companies like Sentai and Discotek) and I have talked to people like John Sirabella and Ed Chavez in person, but sometimes the simplest and silliest-sounding idea does seem like the best one to do. E-mailing really doesn't result in responses, though I have gotten some and do save each and every one of them, even if it's a mostly automated-style response, but it still does get your message out there.

As for the racing anime analogy you made, Zac, I fully understand the point you were making but that might not have been the best analogy as there's really so little racing anime out there in general. You got Initial D, yeah, but after that is Wangan Midnight, capeta, Money Turn... And that's really it it seems for recent racing anime, unless you want to really push it and bring up IGPX or even Cyber Formula. But, yeah, it worked as a super niche-to-super niche analogy, even if the second title you listed wasn't a racing anime (if by 'B-T-X' you mean B't X [pronounced "Beat X"]), but I'm not going to nitpick here as you did get your point across very effectively.

Also, I don't know why but it sounded appropriate to have V guy sound like he was talking through a old radio. I'm going to guess that the first 17 minutes was the really civil portion of the conversation, but I'm not going to listen to 2 hours of that. Love how you just cut straight to the end after the whole "noobs" comment, though.
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The Eva Monkey



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 24
Location: Baltimore
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:22 pm Reply with quote
Anime fandom is very serious business.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1504
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:37 pm Reply with quote
I may be wrong, but I keep getting the impression from "V Guy" that he's saying..."Make me your leader fandom! Everything will be better if everyone thinks like me!!"

Edit at 45 minute mark: Whoa! Things started getting ugly!
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BeanBandit



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 303
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:45 pm Reply with quote
I'm not gonna lie I got half way through that V guy segment before I tapped out lol How you lasted another hour I don't know.
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IkariGendo



Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:49 pm Reply with quote
Here is my attempt at making a summary of the V interview.



I'm at one hour mark. Now it's the Eva stuff, this is gonna get bad.


Last edited by IkariGendo on Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3083
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:51 pm Reply with quote
There's one forum I go to where everyone bitches about how much their niche interest really doesn't get any english release, and then they pirate everything when it does get release.

Dear god does this Sal guy laugh a lot. Personally the closest I ever came to buying something for the sake of supporting something like that was when I bought Cybuster which I did because I wanted to have every SRW that I can reasonably buy (as opposed to buying Bandai Visuals releases which are simply too expensive). I have no illusion that anyone really plans to license anymore SRW.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1504
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:54 pm Reply with quote
BeanBandit wrote:
I'm not gonna lie I got half way through that V guy segment before I tapped out lol How you lasted another hour I don't know.


It's morbidly fascinating how serious this guy is taking it.
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sonickid101



Joined: 24 Apr 2009
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:11 pm Reply with quote
Yessus! A 2 hour argument!?! well I'm genuinely interested in what that's about...but could I listen to it that long? but I cant not find out what sparked a 2 hour war, did Zac call V a upstart? "Say the magic word, and the duck comes down" that's my guess. I s'pose I'll check it out.
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_V_



Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 619
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:33 pm Reply with quote
sonickid101 wrote:
Yessus! A 2 hour argument!?! well I'm genuinely interested in what that's about...but could I listen to it that long? but I can't not find out what sparked a 2 hour war, did Zac call V a upstart? "Say the magic word, and the duck comes down" that's my guess. I s'pose I'll check it out.


...I think its wrong to call it a 2 hour "argument" -- it was a discussion, and at times we disagreed, but we were never "yelling" and it was actually fairly constructive.

Generally, the central thing we were talking about (which we get to about an hour into it and continue to the end) was "can we, as fans, interpret anime in ways that are so drastically divergent that they contradict things the creators said?" -- generally, I *do not* feel that we can "interpret" Evangelion to be "about the religious symbols" when Gainax staff have repeatedly stated they never even planned them out, the symbols were thrown in at random with no meaning.

Zac argued that, as a work of art, there is no such thing as a "wrong interpretation" and we shouldn't just "throw out" these other interpretations (he phrases this better in the podcast I'm doing this from memory).

Ultimately, does my little revolutionary movement have the right to say "your statements about Evangelion are wrong?".....I think argue that there is a line between "interpretation" and "explanation"....and that things that *directly contradict the statements of living authors about their own works* cannot be considered "explanation".

We didn't actually reach a firm conclusion, Zac and I discussed this at length, and ultimately I felt really good about it because I'm worried we're....settling into a doldrums, fan apathy, in which we're not really discussing weighty issues anymore. This felt like we were really discussing something worth analyzing, which impacts everyone, and we both discussed it maturely and insightfully without resorting to childish namecalling.

Its a bit hard to summarize so, as you already seem curious, I'd encourage you to listen to the whole thing and share your reaction here.

Its just that as opposed to guy #1 saying "4Kids stinks" and guy #2 going "yeah"....we were actually discussing something we had different positions on.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1504
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:47 pm Reply with quote
After listening to that, all I've got say is...

...I don't think the world is in dire need of "experts" on Eva...hell I don't think anime fandom needs "experts" on it either.

V guy, I think a lot of this conflict is in your head...definatley the level of importance this conflict has is in your head.

I think that even if your "message" gets through, it'll damage the fandom more than you think.

As someone who used to argue, VERY fervently, very savagely on message boards 7 or 8 years ago about Eva, all I can say is that I think you should just move on and...enjoy things.


It's kind of like a relationship, when the arguments over something overshadow the enjoyment, you end up hurting it.

Just move on
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_V_



Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 619
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:58 pm Reply with quote
I'm here to stay.

I'm not happy with the status quo in general; but if your point is "well, we were debating Eva for 15 years what can be done differently"....my position is that for 15 years we never really focused on "okay, what did the creators intend?"....we instead had a lot of partisan bickering over rival fan theories, which didn't make sense because they weren't properly researched but argued from an appeal to emotion.

I'm not going to "settle in" and I *do not* define "Eva fandom" as "veteran fans actively posting on bboards right now. V will rock-the-boat. Stop arguing so we can continue posting"

I think of "Eva fandom" in its broadest sense: anyone who ever physically watched the show.

But to remain on topic, besides pointing out that "wow, that guy with the Evangelion fansite who runs Eva panels sure does take Eva seriously" (and replace "Eva" with "Dragonball" or any other major series; yes, we all take our favorite series "seriously" in our own ways).....

....besides that, do you have a particular view supporting either my view on the discussion or the view Zac supported?
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3083
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:11 am Reply with quote
Personally I agree with V on this, I mean sure you can claim that the Lance of Longinus has meaning, but it's clearly just a Bident that's purpose is to be a giant powerful weapon. It has no real relevance to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. You can claim that Keel Lorenz is the wandering jew but his clearly was never supposed to be considering that his aged.

To give another idea, the ending of Code Geass, when it aired everyone saw it as an open ending where you could believe that a certain character was alive or dead. Then the writer flat out stated that he was dead, and extra material all backs up this character being dead. Should I let people who didn't know this still believe this character is alive? or worse those people who know about this but flat out ignore it just because it gets in the way of their fantasies?

I also disagree with Zac that Evangelion is a masterpiece because it has so many interpretations. I see it as Anno taking what should have been a straightforward story about how Shinji grows up, and comes out of his shell into a complete mess where he includes crap for no apparent reason, and has in fact promoted this type of film making. A scene I remember is the first episode with Vicious in Cowboy Bebop. Vicious says, "when angels fall from heaven they become devils" which would be interesting if it actually related to anything that ever happened in the series. Spike was a former hitman for the triad until he became a heroic bounty hunter (the exact opposite of what Vicious just said), and Vicious hasn't changed at all.

People shouldn't confuse symbolism for imagery. Trigun is symbolism, while Angel Sanctuary is imagery.
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The Eva Monkey



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 24
Location: Baltimore
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:11 am Reply with quote
_V_ wrote:
...for 15 years we never really focused on "okay, what did the creators intend?"....we instead had a lot of partisan bickering over rival fan theories, which didn't make sense because they weren't properly researched but argued from an appeal to emotion.

You're on a fool's errand sir. To think that you're the first person in 15 years to actually attempt to research or explain the show properly is utter madness. And even if you could explain it all, you would be destroying the fandom you love so much because it would become cheap and disposable, and we wouldn't have vibrant discussion or debate anymore. Evangelion persists because it is so deeply interpretive, and even the principle creator, Hideaki Anno, acknowledged this and likened Evangelion to a puzzle. Is that not a credible statement?
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