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NEWS: Girls Frontline Developer Responds to Mushibugyo Design Controversy


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Amara Tenoh



Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Posts: 333
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:42 pm Reply with quote
Well at least the design was ultimately changed. Even though an apology would have also been nice, the redesign is still the best thing to happen in this situation.
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:09 pm Reply with quote
No offense, but Girls Frontline isn't THAT big of a name that everyone is familiar with. I've never heard of it, and I'm a pretty big nerd. 8000 followers is also... well...

Also, China company complaining about stealing....
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OrangeVision



Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 77
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:45 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
No offense, but Girls Frontline isn't THAT big of a name that everyone is familiar with. I've never heard of it, and I'm a pretty big nerd. 8000 followers is also... well...

Also, China company complaining about stealing....

Not pointing fingers, but it's usually easier to plagiarize smaller works since those people have less power and backing to do anything about it if things come to light.
I also hope you're not implying cases made by chinese should be taken less seriously because some unrelated chinese people have stolen content before.
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Engineering Nerd



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 852
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Quote:

I also hope you're not implying cases made by chinese should be taken less seriously because some unrelated chinese people have stolen content before.



As an Asian-American, I truly appreciate such view. Although for a country with 1.4 billion population base, the idea of minority kinda diminished. Almost anything can be amplified and generalized (which unfortunately, some greedy, unimaginative bastards happens to become the national disgrace and negative representatives)

Stealing or not, I don't think using double standards will solve anything. Plus, the author altered the design in a unbelievable fast manner, so I think we should put it to rest.
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partially



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 702
Location: Oz
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:21 pm Reply with quote
The designs are remarkable similar. Odd things do happen, but if I was Shonen Sunday I would have pushed the author a little further than, "never heard of them". For instance you don't need to know the name of a company to copy their work. Particularly with how imageboards function these days. And using the excuse of, I have never heard of them, is about as flimsy as you can get! Confused

A much more legit response would have been SS to say that they had asked for and seen all of the authors iterative design work in relation to the character. Everything as it is smells like they were caught copying and wanting to fob it off to avoid the bad press of being caught copying. And they know they can get away with it because it is an unknown Chinese company, so they can sweep it under the rug and any complaints will be minimal.

DmonHiro wrote:
8000 followers is also... well...


Is that for twitter? Because you do know that virtually no Chinese people use twitter right? It is alike to comparing apples and oranges and all that. I know nothing about them either. However using a western metric to assume how big a Chinese brand is, is about as pointless as you can get.

8000 followers outside China for an unknown company 6 months old is actually pretty damn good.
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teferi



Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 397
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:47 pm Reply with quote
OrangeVision wrote:
DmonHiro wrote:
No offense, but Girls Frontline isn't THAT big of a name that everyone is familiar with. I've never heard of it, and I'm a pretty big nerd. 8000 followers is also... well...

Also, China company complaining about stealing....

Not pointing fingers, but it's usually easier to plagiarize smaller works since those people have less power and backing to do anything about it if things come to light.
I also hope you're not implying cases made by chinese should be taken less seriously because some unrelated chinese people have stolen content before.


The problem isn't that Chinese cases should be taken less seriously; it's that when Chinese companies plagiarize they don't take foreign claims of plagiarism seriously. If the roles were reversed here they'd be denying everything outright and refusing to make any changes.
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roxybudgy



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 125
Location: Western Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:14 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
Also, China company complaining about stealing....

Engineering Nerd wrote:
Stealing or not, I don't think using double standards will solve anything.

teferi wrote:
The problem isn't that Chinese cases should be taken less seriously; it's that when Chinese companies plagiarize they don't take foreign claims of plagiarism seriously.


Sounds like some people are trying to call the Chinese game company hypocrites because other completely unrelated Chinese companies behave unethically. While Chinese companies generally have a poor reputation when it comes to copyright/trademarks, there is no indication that this particular game company deserves to be tarred with the same brush.

OrangeVision wrote:
I also hope you're not implying cases made by chinese should be taken less seriously because some unrelated chinese people have stolen content before.

This.
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Engineering Nerd



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 852
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:03 pm Reply with quote
@roxybudgy


I think you misinterpreted my intention. You can read my post again, I strongly oppose anyone try to use "double standards" to give possible plagiarism (since we are not certain yet, just "possible") a free pass, or trying to change to subject by proclaiming : "well, 'they' did it TOO!" I do not need to name what kind of argumentative fallacy that is.


@teferi

Sorry sir, but I do think I need to clear up a few things.

Impression and perception can be long-lasting, and in the past there is no denying that many greedy and uninspired Chinese bastards have made numerous copyright violations; for a fast-growing developing country, it is truly unfortunate and inevitable. But please do keep in mind although those violators are very large in number (well, anything in such gigantic population base will be amplified), they do not represent the overall image,reputation and behavior of entire 1.4 billion people. Impression based on limited exposure, understandable; but claiming the entire China ACG industry acts that way is truly unwarranted to the ones who follow the national and international copyright laws closely and strictly.


Not to mention in recent years China's copyright laws have become more westernized (mainly due to USA and Japan's influence) and much more restrictive. If we limit the scope to anime, comics and gaming, almost all shows (including shorts) in each anime season are licensed and legally streamed in various Chinese streaming sites (except shows like Mahouka, you can guess the reason why), more LN and manga titles are published simultaneously with Japanese release. With these changes and more awareness to copyright; there is a surge of copyright dispute cases and significant decrease of pirating. Such awareness may also explain why the game company made the claim in the first place.

The times are changing. And using impressions, stereotypes and generalizations to form personal opinions may not sound like a fair idea.
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teferi



Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 397
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:37 pm Reply with quote
Engineering Nerd wrote:
@roxybudgy


I think you misinterpreted my intention. You can read my post again, I strongly oppose anyone try to use "double standards" to give possible plagiarism (since we are not certain yet, just "possible") a free pass, or trying to change to subject by proclaiming : "well, 'they' did it TOO!" I do not need to name what kind of argumentative fallacy that is.


@teferi

Sorry sir, but I do think I need to clear up a few things.

Impression and perception can be long-lasting, and in the past there is no denying that many greedy and uninspired Chinese bastards have made numerous copyright violations; for a fast-growing developing country, it is truly unfortunate and inevitable. But please do keep in mind although those violators are very large in number (well, anything in such gigantic population base will be amplified), they do not represent the overall image,reputation and behavior of entire 1.4 billion people. Impression based on limited exposure, understandable; but claiming the entire China ACG industry acts that way is truly unwarranted to the ones who follow the national and international copyright laws closely and strictly.


Not to mention in recent years China's copyright laws have become more westernized (mainly due to USA and Japan's influence) and much more restrictive. If we limit the scope to anime, comics and gaming, almost all shows (including shorts) in each anime season are licensed and legally streamed in various Chinese streaming sites (except shows like Mahouka, you can guess the reason why), more LN and manga titles are published simultaneously with Japanese release. With these changes and more awareness to copyright; there is a surge of copyright dispute cases and significant decrease of pirating. Such awareness may also explain why the game company made the claim in the first place.

The times are changing. And using impressions, stereotypes and generalizations to form personal opinions may not sound like a fair idea.

Oh please.

The Chinese government is actively involved in stealing trade secrets from US Companies even. The fact that they're plagiarizing intellectual property from foreign companies makes it hard to buy your story about them improving and actually enforcing their copyright laws. You can't write this off as a problem scaled by the large population of the country when stuff like that is happening.

And no, the idea that China has a problem with Plagiarism isn't the result of a bunch of white people spewing stereotypes. Just google "Chinese Plagiarism" and you'll find article after article on the subject stating otherwise.
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Engineering Nerd



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 852
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:02 pm Reply with quote
teferi wrote:


Oh please.

The Chinese government is actively involved in stealing trade secrets from US Companies even. The idea that they're improving their copyright laws while plagiarizing intellectual property from foreign companies makes it hard to buy your story. You can't right this off as a problem scaled by the large population of the country when stuff like that is happening.



But we are talking to private-owned companies, not government though. By improving and enforcing, I am also limiting the scope to ACG (none of the examples I listed have anything to do with high-level national trade secrets). I am NOT trying to excuse them, no way, but just saying at least in the micro-economy sense, things in copyright awareness are improving (no way close to perfect, just improving to the right direction)

It's interesting that you brought that up. Recently I have talked to some business professors in CalTech (I am Engineering Major, so not exactly my field), and they have mentioned the incidents too. Here's the conclusion we got:

USA and China are trade partners and rivals, there is no doubt large-scale, sometimes government-sponsored cyber attacks occur. But do keep in mind these happened and apply to both sides (notice when did USA say the cyber attack occur? Hint: before the visit of a leader from certain nation, why? adding pressure in USA's favor). The Chinese news frequently report under cyberattacks and being hacked by USA, of course, take those with a grain a salt, and there is no way that kind of voice will show up in western news.

I am not here to argue politics, of course. This is anime-site and should strict to anime-related talk. I apologize in advance if anything I said rob you in the wrong way. Last but not least, I am Asian-American, I am ON your "side", just chose to stand neutral in a sensitive case like this.


Last edited by Engineering Nerd on Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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teferi



Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 397
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:12 pm Reply with quote
^

Governments enforce the law in cases like this though. Companies don't comply with foreign claims of infringement out of the goodness of their hearts.

Frankly, you're nuts if you think the US government needs to steal technology from Chinese companies. They'd buy it.

[Edit]: you don't need to quote the entire post when it's immediately above yours. Errinundra.
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brucepuppy





PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:45 pm Reply with quote
Those 8000 followers could be bots or bought followers. Don't believe everything about huge numbers of followers, views, etc at its face value.
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jojothepunisher



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 799
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:50 pm Reply with quote
Notice how the redesigned character looks less pretty and creative compared to the original.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:24 pm Reply with quote
Probably the first thing they crapped out in a hurry.
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1736
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:38 pm Reply with quote
While I feel bad for the gaming company to some degree, China put itself in this situation by flaunting or ignoring copy right law for decades. There was a top gear episode solely on car concepts that China flat out stole and the government itself just hand waived it and moved on. And these were not just things that happened a long time ago, some of these are as recent as a few years. But now that the country starting to move forward into a period where it actually needs those laws for itself, the hypocrisy strong with this one.

Besides, ultimately what are the damages, how many more copies of the work did the author sell at the expense of the game. They are basically mutually exclusive markets and any damage was minimal to none.

BTW here is a link showing China still ripping off car designs to this day

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/the-weird-and-wonderful-world-of-chinese-cars/ss-BBgbQ1A#image=2
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