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NEWS: Anime Industry Report Shows Continued Growth in Overseas Market




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Shay Guy



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1303
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:37 pm Reply with quote
I saw this about a week ago. They're always interesting to read.

Quote:
However, the report noted that "the industry felt little benefit though the growth" because it was mostly attributable to the overseas market. While Japan does feel benefit from the overseas market growth, that benefit is not as direct, and is less than the benefit felt from domestic market growth, since most overseas sales go to licensing management companies.


Looking at the second page, "broad" revenue grew 9.9%, while "limited" revenue 14.4% -- but broad revenue's growth came entirely from overseas revenue. I think "broad" is the whole anime industry while "limited" is just the animation companies; does that mean the animation companies were getting a bigger piece of the pie? (Doing the math, LR was 11.5% of BR in 2016, compared to 11.0% in 2015; and 15.7% way back in 2006.)

There's also a note that they're having trouble finding staff to keep up with the demand for TV animation. Union, folks!
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Connor Dino



Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 104
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:47 pm Reply with quote
I think this story's title needs an addendum. Instead of reading as "Anime Industry Report Shows Continued Growth in Overseas Market" it should read as "Anime Industry Report Shows Continued Growth in Overseas Market...despite Japanese anime companies' best efforts."

Man imagine how much more growth there would be if Japan realized it was 2018 and got with the program?
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omiya



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 1660
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:02 pm Reply with quote
Another problem that needs to be fixed:

Quote:
However, the report noted that "the industry felt little benefit though the growth" because it was mostly attributable to the overseas market. While Japan does feel benefit from the overseas market growth, that benefit is not as direct, and is less than the benefit felt from domestic market growth, since most overseas sales go to licensing management companies.
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SWAnimefan



Joined: 10 Oct 2014
Posts: 634
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:46 am Reply with quote
Rosey numbers, but we know this business spike with China is only temporary. They are heavily invested in learning Animation from the Japanese and it's not too far-fetched that in a few years, China will be self-sufficient with their own animation base. Maybe even steal animation business from the Japanese.

Perhaps this is why Abe is so interested in protection of the art.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 4253
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:41 am Reply with quote
SWAnimefan wrote:
Rosey numbers, but we know this business spike with China is only temporary. They are heavily invested in learning Animation from the Japanese and it's not too far-fetched that in a few years, China will be self-sufficient with their own animation base. Maybe even steal animation business from the Japanese.
Korea made rip-offs in the 80s and 90s, and they didn't turn out well. I would imagine they use it as a base and develop their own style, or maybe that is just wishful thinking.
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Яeverse



Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 1038
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:20 am Reply with quote
America needs to follow china and get our own stuff animated.

China hits like kings avatar and spiritpact, hitorinoshita, evil or live etc.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:16 am Reply with quote
The report doesn't seem to map out or correlate revenue and contracts and what type. Revenue from animation contracts are very different and one-time, fixed pay compared to revenue from licensing which is on an ongoing basis and usually longer term. Production committees get the licensing revenue while the studio themselves get the animation contract revenue.

From what's implied here, it seems American contract revenue is basically all licensing while Chinese contracts are split between licensing and outsourced animation production to Japan. Given that there were 356 anime shows total that year in Japan, I seriously doubt the majority of the contracts were from licensing those shows in China, especially with their blacklist. However, from what I gather elsewhere of Taiwanese availability I presume that would be the case for Taiwan.
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GeorgeC



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 794
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:08 pm Reply with quote
Яeverse wrote:
America needs to follow china and get our own stuff animated.

China hits like kings avatar and spiritpact, hitorinoshita, evil or live etc.



I hate to tell you this but part of the reason WHY they do 2-D animation overseas is because they learned to animate economically, they do MOSTLY limited animation which is NOTHING like 24fps (24 drawings, literally), AND they don't pay the vast majority of the Asian animation workers anything like a living wage (by American standards)!
There is a VERY high turnover rate for the animation industry in Japan in particular where people leave the field and get much better-paying jobs in "ordinary job" sectors.

In the United States, the executives who okayed funding for 2-D theatrical animation NEVER understood the process of animation and thought animated films could be produced like live-action. That's just not the case. Animated have be planned to death to be produced economically, on-budget, or the production cost increases become astronomical! This is a huge part of why The Little Mermaid (1989) cost under $30million to produce and yet 5 years later The Lion King cost well over $120million to make!
Those production cost increases had LESS to do with the salaries of the rank-and-file animators or even the directors and producers who began making salaries in the seven-figure range! The costs went well into the $100million because the clueless executives started mucking around and demanding story changes when the films were half or three-quarters finished and that's a VERY expensive proposition! They're in essence DOUBLING the costs of production at the very least because the morons cannot read and understand the storyboards and screenplays THEY OKAYED!!!

There were always people at Disney in particular who WANTED to shut down the classic theatrical animation unit for decades to save costs for the company. They finally got their wish in the aftermath of the most critically and financially prosperous era of that division and KILLED the golden goose (idea generator) for their parks, TV shows, and other productions. And they made the excuse that CG animation was cheaper when in fact the latest CG films produced in the US are even MORE EXPENSIVE than the last hand-drawn films they did!

There was an impact in closing down Disney's classical hand-drawn unit for good. The entire hand-drawn/classical industry in the US (and in other parts across the world) virtually died overnight which is why you see VERY little hand-drawn animation produced in the US (or Europe) anymore. It all has to be produced CG for theatrical because that's what Disney and Dreamworks say it has to be!
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SWAnimefan



Joined: 10 Oct 2014
Posts: 634
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:13 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
Korea made rip-offs in the 80s and 90s, and they didn't turn out well. I would imagine they use it as a base and develop their own style, or maybe that is just wishful thinking.


I agree, China appears to be on a similar path. So it's we won't really know what their style will be until they become fully independent. But so far their storyline style appears to be focused more on Chinese mythology, which has limited appeal to the rest of the world.

Яeverse wrote:
America needs to follow china and get our own stuff animated.

China hits like kings avatar and spiritpact, hitorinoshita, evil or live etc.


America still does animation, but it's more geared towards 3D animation. It's far from the days of Hanna-Barbera and classic Disney animation.
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Rednimue



Joined: 07 Dec 2016
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:55 pm Reply with quote
SWAnimefan wrote:
Rosey numbers, but we know this business spike with China is only temporary. They are heavily invested in learning Animation from the Japanese and it's not too far-fetched that in a few years, China will be self-sufficient with their own animation base. Maybe even steal animation business from the Japanese.

Perhaps this is why Abe is so interested in protection of the art.


I agree, the sooner Japan ditches china the better.

There's nothing to be gained on the mid/long-term for Japan.

MarshalBanana wrote:
SWAnimefan wrote:
...
Korea made rip-offs in the 80s and 90s, and they didn't turn out well.

Those were different times, back in the days the market was way smaller and there weren't so many ways, methods and Platforms for consumers to consume entertainment and for companies to market and sell their products.

Korea and China are two different countries.
Korea is a small country with almost 51 milion people and with that population, growing a self-sustainable domestic market is pretty hard.
Also It has an animation industry which is historically mired in the swamp of over-reliance on on outsourced animation contracts from all around the world.
China, on the other Hand, with the sheer numbers of its population alone can easily bypass these problems.

In the end who knows what will happen ... even if the circumstances are a little different maybe history might repeat itself ... only time will tell.


MarshalBanana wrote:
SWAnimefan wrote:
...
I would imagine they use it as a base and develop their own style, or maybe that is just wishful thinking.


I think It's unlikely that the chinese will develop their own distinct style for 4 reasons:

1) The purpose behind the chinese attempt at entering the "anime market" is purely economic.
The reason they're even trying in the First place is because they noticed there's high demand among chinese consumers for this kind of media (namely ANIME ) and the vast majority of consumers want this particular kind of media with a very distinct style and deviating from what the customers want is very risky and unwise on a business level.

2) Korea as a more free country, from all kind of restrictions/censorship on creativity, has never been able to create and establish a distinct and unique style for their geeky media after decades of "taking inspiration" from Japanese geeky media (dating back to the 80s as you previously mentioned ).
Even if China has been "taking inspiration" from Japanese geeky media for a shorter period of time (almost 2 decades vs almost 4 decades) I think, even if It has a wider pool of "talents", China will follow a similar path.
You can tell by looking at both countries videogame and comic industry/culture, putting aside those examples which are highly influenced/derivative of american style media (although It's more of a videogame thing ), there is an astounding degree of sameness/derivativeness in a lot of their works (you can go and see for yourself on any illegal scanlation website, database website or even legal ones like bilibili, U.1.7, tencent comics, lezhin comics, line webtoons etc ...) and I think this high degree of derivativeness will translate to their animation industry as well (which is already happening to an extent).

3) Also the Japanese influence over the new stylistic trends of these media won't disappear over night, so unless the entire industry in Japan will be taken over by chinese companies or china puts a total ban on Japanese media into effect, china and korea will always follow ... and even if a hypothetical total ban is put into effect in china, the 45 years long ban of Japanese media in korea showed us that It wasn't very effective ... and in a time and a world as connected and globalized as the ones we are living in, I think It would be even less effective.

4) It's true that It's a negative stereotype but we are talking about China ... They proved many many times, in the not so distant past, and in many fields that originality and creativity are not as prevalent as imitation, copy or reproduction of something that already exist with little to no variation on the formula.

Яeverse wrote:
America needs to follow china and get our own stuff animated.

China hits like kings avatar and spiritpact, hitorinoshita, evil or live etc.


America is already doing its own things, serving its own market and fan-base, with its own distinct style and unique identity.
It also produces every now and then, anime-inspired works which are, for the most part, passion projects and/or co-production with people behind it who have respect and admiration for the "source" of their inspiration.

While China is doing nothing more than "imitating" (to put It kindly) the japanese way of doing animation and churning out indistinguishable carbon copies of anime without a shred of artistic integrity, solely with the potential profit from the domestic/International anime market in mind.

Why should America follow china example ?

Instead China should start to do something different enough that sets It apart from the American and Japanese animation style ...


Last edited by Rednimue on Wed May 02, 2018 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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teferi



Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 397
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:05 pm Reply with quote
Яeverse wrote:
America needs to follow china and get our own stuff animated.

China hits like kings avatar and spiritpact, hitorinoshita, evil or live etc.


I hope this is just the internet not conveying sarcasm as well as it should.
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Rednimue



Joined: 07 Dec 2016
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:06 pm Reply with quote
teferi wrote:
Яeverse wrote:
America needs to follow china and get our own stuff animated.

China hits like kings avatar and spiritpact, hitorinoshita, evil or live etc.


I hope this is just the internet not conveying sarcasm as well as it should.


Probably he/she simply forgot to put a "S" before "HITS" Laughing
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TheAnimeRevolutionizer



Joined: 03 Nov 2017
Posts: 317
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:44 pm Reply with quote
GeorgeC wrote:
Яeverse wrote:
America needs to follow china and get our own stuff animated.

China hits like kings avatar and spiritpact, hitorinoshita, evil or live etc.



I hate to tell you this but part of the reason WHY they do 2-D animation overseas is because they learned to animate economically, they do MOSTLY limited animation which is NOTHING like 24fps (24 drawings, literally), AND they don't pay the vast majority of the Asian animation workers anything like a living wage (by American standards)!
There is a VERY high turnover rate for the animation industry in Japan in particular where people leave the field and get much better-paying jobs in "ordinary job" sectors. (and more)


I think the matter goes more to subjects of the topic related to creativity and putting out good content, but then again, that would be me missing the point. Then again, I wouldn't be putting out my two cents. I do like what you have to say for the most part.

Another thing to add to your explaination can be best told also in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED0ySD51Z2U

and also everyone of my past posts about America's influence in the anime world and vice versa too, mainly culturally.

Яeverse, I'm not going to lie. Unlike sushi, karate, karaoke, and cars, anime has been this really weird case of supreme paranoia and hands on protection against the boogeyman known as "cultural appropriation". There are hundreds of artists out there, yes. But oddly, outside of the crew behind Avatar and Voltron, and RWBY, there's no other major animators, or even OEL writers and authors out there in the States. Anyone who wanted to do the style is in Japan right now working their asses off. Sadly, there's little DIY and grassroots here.

I have to admit, until the day any aspiring artist who wishes to create anime as a profession and lay out an industry here goes beyond the everyday mentality, it will never happen. And if they do, there is a lot of obstacles and things they have to do to even establish one, or even a foundation for it. Until then, the US only has importation and an audience to provide for anime.

(oh and Justin, if you're reading this, just a heads up, the little answerman letters about the whole "can america do anime" after the one you posted an answer to were sent by me. I was testing you. Guess you need to study up more on the sociocultural impact of anime and fandom behavior history in the States, buddy.)

EDIT: You know, after years of dealing with the question, yeah, I can finally appreciate the purism and no nonsense hands on defense of anime fandom against cultural appropriation and censorship. Because cultural understanding is the much better answer. And I might be on the edge of the line, but considering the recent cultural and racial climate here in the States, you guys weren't wrong in doing what you did, especially for a nation I hold extra consideration for criticism when it heralds ideals of freedom, equality, and human rights, especially in terms of freedom of expression. I think it will take a lot of effort, and a proper public mindset if anime is to ever be an industry here in the States, both creatively and economically. But you know, there's nothing wrong with being alternative and underground.

I won't forget however that time you sent death threats to Carl Macek, and promptly drove Apollo Smile into a fiery crashing end. Still, thanks.
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TurnerJ



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 469
Location: Highland Park, NJ
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:19 pm Reply with quote
GeorgeC wrote:
Яeverse wrote:
America needs to follow china and get our own stuff animated.

China hits like kings avatar and spiritpact, hitorinoshita, evil or live etc.



I hate to tell you this but part of the reason WHY they do 2-D animation overseas is because they learned to animate economically, they do MOSTLY limited animation which is NOTHING like 24fps (24 drawings, literally), AND they don't pay the vast majority of the Asian animation workers anything like a living wage (by American standards)!
There is a VERY high turnover rate for the animation industry in Japan in particular where people leave the field and get much better-paying jobs in "ordinary job" sectors.

In the United States, the executives who okayed funding for 2-D theatrical animation NEVER understood the process of animation and thought animated films could be produced like live-action. That's just not the case. Animated have be planned to death to be produced economically, on-budget, or the production cost increases become astronomical! This is a huge part of why The Little Mermaid (1989) cost under $30million to produce and yet 5 years later The Lion King cost well over $120million to make!
Those production cost increases had LESS to do with the salaries of the rank-and-file animators or even the directors and producers who began making salaries in the seven-figure range! The costs went well into the $100million because the clueless executives started mucking around and demanding story changes when the films were half or three-quarters finished and that's a VERY expensive proposition! They're in essence DOUBLING the costs of production at the very least because the morons cannot read and understand the storyboards and screenplays THEY OKAYED!!!

There were always people at Disney in particular who WANTED to shut down the classic theatrical animation unit for decades to save costs for the company. They finally got their wish in the aftermath of the most critically and financially prosperous era of that division and KILLED the golden goose (idea generator) for their parks, TV shows, and other productions. And they made the excuse that CG animation was cheaper when in fact the latest CG films produced in the US are even MORE EXPENSIVE than the last hand-drawn films they did!

There was an impact in closing down Disney's classical hand-drawn unit for good. The entire hand-drawn/classical industry in the US (and in other parts across the world) virtually died overnight which is why you see VERY little hand-drawn animation produced in the US (or Europe) anymore. It all has to be produced CG for theatrical because that's what Disney and Dreamworks say it has to be!


A major problem here, too, was that Disney wasn't always churning out great movies. Yes, they had a great run with The Little Mermaid all the way up to Lion King, even in their "decline" during the latter half of the 90's. The problem was, in the 00's, the movies went downhill in quality. Atlantis The Lost Empire, although admirably ambitious, was problematic, and neither Brother Bear nor especially Home on the Range were especially good films. As much as I've grown disillusioned with Pixar and even its founder John Lasseter, an important thing to remember is that their movies around this time found something with audiences that those movies didn't. Executives blamed it on 2D. But the truth was those films weren't good. Period. Now The Princess and The Frog WAS a decent attempt, and I did enjoy that film, but the problem was it came at a time when trust for Disney was at its lowest point.

So it was more than just corporate greed. It was also a case of declining quality. But instead of acknowledging their own faults, it seems to me like they blamed the medium instead. It was really a multitude of things.

It's because of this that I'm glad to be a fan of Japanese animation. True, they do underpay their employees over there, but handdrawn is still very much alive over there, and hearing that Ghibli has recently reopened to do another animated feature makes me psyched. I don't like hearing about how they underpay people over there, but at least it's preferable to what I've been seeing in American cinemas lately where animated films are concerned. The CG trailers I've been seeing have been ghastly. That's why watching Mary and the Witch's Flower and Big Fish and Begonia (both well dubbed, too, incidentally), were both great experiences for me. Far more so than any of the CG trailers I saw. (Incredibles II excluded, of course, but even then I might not see that one.)
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