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NEWS: Sound! Euphonium Author's New Novel is About High School Canoeing Team


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pikkuhukka
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:29 am Reply with quote
general default: waiting for this to be animated by kyoani, no other animation studio will do
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HoboSoup



Joined: 06 Aug 2017
Posts: 265
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:48 am Reply with quote
Can we call this "Gal-Pal Canoeing"? So some fans (myself included) don't get our hopes up like Sound Euphonium, where the author dashed our hopes of a romance between any of the girls. I bet at the end of this they'll all marry their canoes.

Joking around at the end there and all that aside, I like the concept of a series about canoeing.
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Hakase



Joined: 25 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:54 am Reply with quote
Future yuribait anime right here.
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 308
Location: Eastern Europe
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:01 am Reply with quote
hakase25 wrote:
Future yuribait anime right here


Even if it isn’t yuri bait, people will still “make” yuri out of it, because all-female sport work, combined with the reputation KyoAni has created for Takeda, pre-tunes the audience to certain expectations. Even when she deliberately tried to sink all the ships in Rikka and many get it, people still proceeded to ship the girls as something self-evident.

The reason for this is that we live in the patriarchal world and if the visible or supposed subtext in all-male work will be perceived as obvious shipping goggles, the same in all-female works will be immediately taken seriously. People are too accustomed to the perception of female characters in the works only as a fanservice, although they are trying to criticize it.

HoboSoup wrote:
Can we call this "Gal-Pal Canoeing"? So some fans (myself included) don't get our hopes up like Sound Euphonium, where the author dashed our hopes of a romance between any of the girls. I bet at the end of this they'll all marry their canoes


Takeda was not originally going to write about any romance except Kumiko x Shuichi as the only ship in the entire franchise. However, obsession with romance in our time is such that any attempt to write about friendship as an important thing will immediately be fetishized as "gay subtext", and various idiots will write that potential yuri is the only thing that interests people in this work. So, she even had to transfer the ship Reina x Taki from the anime to LN in order to reduce the shiping obsession.
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RenimLS



Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 18
Location: VA, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:57 am Reply with quote
Kind of curious if this actually about canoeing, kayaking, or both. The Japanese seem to lump them together as "canoeing sports", and the cover art depicts them using a double-bladed oar used for kayaking. You'd be using a single-bladed oar if it was canoeing.
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HoboSoup



Joined: 06 Aug 2017
Posts: 265
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:44 am Reply with quote
#HayamiLover wrote:
...


Holy. I don't even know where to begin here. People sometimes tell me to relax because I take things to seriously and sometimes rant, and I'm wondering if this is what it feels like to be on the receiving end. I feel like I'm being yelled at by someone entirely in their own world.

For starters don't assume things. I thought the dynamic between Reina and Kumiko was very intimate and often exceeded the boundaries of friendship. I'm not fetishizing homosexuality, I would have thought the same thing if they were a guy and a girl, or both guys. I can appreciate and enjoy a cute romance between two human beings regardless of gender/sex. I sincerely loathe the concept of being judged because I'm a male and can appreciate romance between women, as I can appreciate a cute couple of any gender, sex, race, and so fourth. Humans wholesomely in love is a wonderful sight.

Also I have a lot of very close LGBT+ friends and family, implying I wouldn't take their sexuality seriously and would fetishize it is extremely insulting in my opinion.

This is the one response I've giving you because I'm pretty certain you called me and anyone like me an idiot.You don't know me and you assume a lot. Honestly I shouldn't even be responding to you in the first place, you essentially spit on me and were all around rude. However I wanted to a least clear up a couple of things that felt like an attack on my character.
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 308
Location: Eastern Europe
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:09 pm Reply with quote
@HoboSoup Lol, I did not say anything about you at all. I just said that in our years it is very difficult to create a work about friendship, which will not be overly perceived as yuri or yaoi bait. Not to mention the fact that my phrase about "idiots" concerned people, that see yuri as the only important or interesting thing in the franchise, implying that without yuri bait it would not be interesting to anyone. I don't remember you saying that. If you really took it as an blaming, I will forgive forgiveness. I'm just tired of explaining to people all the cultural nuances and tropes in Euhpo.

P.S Any friendly or rival relationship will look like romance if you change the gender of one of the characters. It’s pretty obvious and I don’t think you need to explain why “they just see each other as brother and sister” often cause a lot of outrage when it comes to heterosexual romance. You do not have to go far, just imagine that Huckleberry Fin is a girl, and then try to look at his interaction with Tom with that thought.
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nargun



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:30 pm Reply with quote
#HayamiLover wrote:
Takeda was not originally going to write about any romance except Kumiko x Shuichi as the only ship in the entire franchise. However, obsession with romance in our time is such that any attempt to write about friendship as an important thing will immediately be fetishized as "gay subtext", and various idiots will write that potential yuri is the only thing that interests people in this work. So, she even had to transfer the ship Reina x Taki from the anime to LN in order to reduce the shiping obsession.


"Dark blue skirts fell just above the knee. Below them, in neat rows in the school gymnasium, were pairs of pale legs. Skinny legs, thick legs. The boys fidgeted in their thick collar as they stole furtive glances. The girls seemed not to notice as they openly displayed their youthful skin. Kumiko took in all of this absentmindedly, then looked down to regard her own form: a girl of meager physique wearing a dark-blue sailor-style uniform. She wondered why she'd believed the rumor that your chest got bigger when you started high school. She sneaked a peak at the girl next to her, whose generous curves were evident even under the uniform's material, and sighed."

Queer as a plaid rabbit, as the saying goes.

[which is to say: this novel is written from Kumiko's perspective, so what's she doing? She's oogling girls, innit. [fe]male gaze, and all that. This is where any sort of background in literature really helps when you're trying to work out what a text means. Or if you're a queer girl yourself then you're already in the headspace and you don't need it explained to you: net result, people-who-are-queer-girls and people-who-have-studied-literature can spot this and other people tend not to. You don't even need a lot of literature background]


RenimLS wrote:
Kind of curious if this actually about canoeing, kayaking, or both. The Japanese seem to lump them together as "canoeing sports", and the cover art depicts them using a double-bladed oar used for kayaking. You'd be using a single-bladed oar if it was canoeing.


Same sport. Different "disciplines", in the technical language of sports governance, but run through the same organisations.

https://www.canoeicf.com/disciplines

Same as an athletics club covers flats running, hurdles, three sorts of jumping and four ways of throwing objects.
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:11 pm Reply with quote
@nargun Are you trolling me? In this scene, Kumiko obviously examines her classmates on the first school day and compares the appearance of other girls with her own. I don’t even know how much you need to be vulgar or, on the contrary, a puritan person to see it as a male gaze. You are trying so hard to find the second bottom as a subtext in a simple text that you end up ignoring its original simple context. This is literally a book example for Occam's razor.

Stop reading between the lines where it was not meant, you literally devalue the idea of ​​any qeer coding, Nowadays, this term has become a back door that is used to rationalize slash-femslash interpretations and attribute them to the intentions of the author. Even if the characters are heterosexual (If you are quoting the original novel, then you know how important her relationship with Shuichi is in this version) or their relationship is impossible in the context of the work, as it was with Marnie was there.

And please, do not forget that any personal experience is subjective, as well as its influence on a person’s perception. Maybe "qeer girls" can't look at other girls without lustful thoughts, I don't know, but for straight people it is completely normal to look at people of their gender in order to compare their appearance with their own. So, don't think that we are memetic "no homo", being heterosexual does not mean being obsessed by the opposite sex and afraid to even look towards the person of their gender.
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Galap
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:37 pm Reply with quote
#HayamiLover wrote:

And please, do not forget that any personal experience is subjective,


#HayamiLover wrote:

Stop reading between the lines where it was not meant


I'm not really sure how these are reconcilable. Isn't where one should and should not read between the lines a subjective assessment?
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
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Location: Eastern Europe
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:22 am Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
I'm not really sure how these are reconcilable. Isn't where one should and should not read between the lines a subjective assessment?


It is quite simple - any experience is subjective, so you shouldn't so easily attribute to the intentions of the author everything that you “read” between the lines. Especially in such weird cases, when the male gaze and "lesbian coding" are given a harmless scene, where the heroine compares the appearance of her classmates with hers own. I’m not trying to say that interpretations are bad, but I can’t watch as people blatant more and more break the scenes out of context to get an “obvious interpretation” or come up with too complicated explanations to find the subtext in simple scenes.

This article https://www.popmatters.com/145120-frustrated-fantasies-misperceptions-of-fandom-and-gone-with-the-wind-2495982261.html describes well a similar case using the example of femslash in Gone with the Wind. Or here’s the French article https://web.archive.org/web/20120903075105/Http://www.crilj.org/archives/4843 about how an overly politicized critic “found” anti-Semitism and anti-Israeli attacks in Smurfs.
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Fenrin



Joined: 19 Dec 2015
Posts: 444
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:24 am Reply with quote
nargun wrote:
"...The girls seemed not to notice as they openly displayed their youthful skin..."

Ew. I know nothing about this series but I have to agree with #HayamiLover on this one; this line, and the whole passage, is so obviously "male gaze" it's frankly disturbing. I mean it's literally talking about girls as if they were on display for the males viewing pleasure and the girl in question lamenting how she doesn't 'measure up', so to speak, in comparison.
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nargun



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 685
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:28 am Reply with quote
#HayamiLover wrote:
P.S Any friendly or rival relationship will look like romance if you change the gender of one of the characters.


Shocked

[if romance looks like friendship if you make the characters same-sex, and friendship looks like romance if the characters become different-sex, then that means the difference between "friendship" and "romance" is whether the parties are the same or different sexes [because you can change one into the other by swapping the sex of one party] This is... not an attitude that leads to useful insights about sexuality. I have some theories as to how a person can wind up thinking like that, but it's above my pay-grade really. ]


Last edited by nargun on Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
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Location: Eastern Europe
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:30 am Reply with quote
Fenrin wrote:
Ew. I know nothing about this series but I have to agree with #HayamiLover on this one; this line, and the whole passage, is so obviously "male gaze" it's frankly disturbing. I mean it's literally talking about girls as if they were on display for the males viewing pleasure and the girl in question lamenting how she doesn't 'measure up', so to speak, in comparison.


Well, not sure about the "male gaze", but the lack of confidence in their femininity is a fairly typical motive for female fiction, especially when it comes to Japan and Class S. This makes the MC closer to the average female reader and makes the object of admiration (Reina) more noticeable as a "ideal girl" and role model.

In general, if you notice, the shoujo is pretty crowded with protagonists who have “problems” with matching Yamato Nadeshiko image, as the pressure of gender roles is a big deal in Japan and many authors want to discuss it. For the same reasons, harems very often have a unlucky virgin guy as an MC, in order to appeal to an ordinary male reader.
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nargun



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:42 am Reply with quote
#HayamiLover wrote:
Class S.


If you knew enough about japanese literature to mention Class S, then you'd also know enough to mention that it was a genre largely created and shaped by actual card-carrying lesbians.

[remember: you've also defined away "homosexuality" as a valid theme of literature by literally equating depictions of homosexuality with depictions of rivalry or friendship.]
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