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Jex2193



Joined: 28 Jan 2014
Posts: 237
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:25 pm Reply with quote
I wonder if the reason for their Nutcracker obsession is the same.
Both involve girls getting sent to a dream land with weird characters, both got really popular.
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Jonny Mendes



Joined: 17 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:41 pm Reply with quote
Also, Alice In Wonderland is one of the first Isekai stories.

Lost in another world, escaping from this crazy world we live on and going to a fantasy world were everything is possible and can be the hero also resonates allot in Japanese fans .
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Lizzie_B



Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:45 pm Reply with quote
Jonny Mendes wrote:
Also, Alice In Wonderland is one of the first Isekai stories.

Lost in another world, escaping from this crazy world we live on and going to a fantasy world were everything is possible and can be the hero also resonates allot in Japanese fans .

I mean you ain't wrong on that part
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TotoroTheGreat



Joined: 20 Feb 2019
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:46 pm Reply with quote
It's interesting to note that some of the earliest isekai manga (Fushigi Yuugi, Kanata Kara and Magic Knight Rayearth) also featured young female protagonists. Also, Inuyasha, which was time-travel based but had a similar vibe to the rest.
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svines85



Joined: 30 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:06 pm Reply with quote
What an interesting topic........I have to admit I'd noticed it cropping up here and there, but had never put it together as to just how often it really was.

Thanks for bringing it up and thanks for your viewpoint on it Smile
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Terrible90sDub
Get off my lawn!Get off my lawn!


Joined: 14 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:17 pm Reply with quote
Huh, this is something I've wondered about as well, as the amount of times I've seen it appear in JP media vastly outnumbers the times I've seen it in western media.

Only somewhat related, but another novel I've wondered about in Japan is The Count of Monte Cristo, as it has its own anime (in space!) and he's a F/GO character (albeit one that seems to be cosplaying as a completely different character). Yet, when it comes to Dumas' work, I usually hear of The Three Musketeers and The Man in the Iron Mask more here.
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Siegfriedl88



Joined: 22 Jun 2017
Posts: 146
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:20 pm Reply with quote
surprised you didn't mention Sword art online, since the whole Alicaztion arc has constant references too Alice in wonderland, not too mention Alice herself.

yea i dont get the appeal ,i watched the disney movie a long time ago and i was left confused with what the plot actually was...maybe that was given my age when i saw it , but its still the most convoluted story I've ever saw
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WashuTakahashi



Joined: 18 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:23 pm Reply with quote
I fail to see these as just a Japanese obsession. In America we've re-adapted it time and again as well so it just seems obvious. Just like any other fairy tale really
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:39 pm Reply with quote
WashuTakahashi wrote:
I fail to see these as just a Japanese obsession. In America we've re-adapted it time and again as well so it just seems obvious. Just like any other fairy tale really


Maybe it's just me, but I rarely if ever come across Alice references in English-language works, meanwhile I see them pop up very frequently in anime. The "Alice" character seems to pop up everywhere. And it's not just Japan either. I remember being puzzled by the inclusion of "Alice" as a monster in the original Ragnarok Online, and that is a Korean game.

@Siegfriedl88
I think it's one of those stories or works where the plot itself is largely irrelevant, and instead the point is the absurdism, the symbolism, and the characters. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why it is so popular in Japan? One of the things I've observed is that a lot of western firm tends to be plot-centric (what happens?), whereas a lot of Anime and Asian cinima in general tens to be focused on characters, setting, and mood rather than concentrating on plot events. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
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Oggers



Joined: 29 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:50 pm Reply with quote
@Siegfriedl88

The reason why the story may seem strange and convoluted is because the story itself operates entirely on dream logic. While it's true that Alice in Wonderland may have helped to pioneer the isekai genre in Japan, technically Alice doesn't actually go to another world; the book makes it very clear at the end that she'd fallen asleep and all of her adventures in Wonderland were just a dream.

It may also seem strange to a modern audience because it makes a lot of allusions to Victorian culture that would be lost on us nowadays. There are some instances where Carroll even pokes fun at the stodgy and strict approach to how Victorian children were educated, and some of the poems are parodies of nursery rhymes that kids in that era were expected to memorize ("How Doth The Little Crocodile" is a parody of a poem called "How Doth The Little Busy Bee", for example).
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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:17 pm Reply with quote
Happy unbirthday, everyone! Smile
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:26 pm Reply with quote
It could have something to do with the animals, Peter Rabbit also seems to be very popular. A lot of Japanese tourists visit the lake distract https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gw6H2bpt5Q and there is a Peter Rabbit theme park in Japan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6APdOveJ4c
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:34 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Maybe it's just me, but I rarely if ever come across Alice references in English-language works, meanwhile I see them pop up very frequently in anime. The "Alice" character seems to pop up everywhere. And it's not just Japan either. I remember being puzzled by the inclusion of "Alice" as a monster in the original Ragnarok Online, and that is a Korean game.
I feel like The Wizard of Oz gets referenced a lot more in Western media than Alice which has a similar plot but has more of an American fairytale appeal as Baum himself wrote Oz to be an American fairytale.

In regards to Alice references in anime, I recall Miyazaki was also inspired by Alice when making Spirited Away. CLAMP also has Alice references in their works, most notably in Cardcaptor Sakura and in their manga Miyuki-chan in Wonderland.
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 94
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:23 pm Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
I feel like The Wizard of Oz gets referenced a lot more in Western media than Alice which has a similar plot but has more of an American fairytale appeal as Baum himself wrote Oz to be an American fairytale.

In regards to Alice references in anime, I recall Miyazaki was also inspired by Alice when making Spirited Away. CLAMP also has Alice references in their works, most notably in Cardcaptor Sakura and in their manga Miyuki-chan in Wonderland.


Agreed regarding the Wizard of Oz. And it's a good comparison too. Like Alice in Wonderland, the "literal" events of the plot aren't important, it's what the various characters represent that matters. Wizard of Oz was social commentary just as how Alice was, they were just commentary for different places and times.

Speaking of Miyuki-Chan in Wonderland, that was animated too. I remember seeing it in my early days of anime fandom and thinking it was a "crazy acid trip", to say the least.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:33 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
the huge amount of wordplay in the novel makes it a particular challenge for translators.

Oh man, while Jabberwocky naturally springs to mind as an example, I'd love to see an analysis of how various translators handled this beauty:

"Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."

I've never been confident that I've correctly parsed that out in English, let alone imagined translating it. Laughing
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