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NEWS: Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo to Require Games to Disclose Loot Box Odds to Players




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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 3486
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:44 am Reply with quote
Well we are still a million miles away from solving this problem, but at least we are making baby steps.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:13 pm Reply with quote
Well it’s a start.
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Chrono1000



Joined: 05 Oct 2013
Posts: 1232
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:08 pm Reply with quote
This announcement is an attempt to prevent more governments from banning loot boxes since gambling for kids doesn't sound like a good idea no matter how you look at it. I mean it is nice to know the odds but it is about as useful as putting a tiny warning at the entrance to a casino.
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Chrno2



Joined: 28 May 2004
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Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:41 pm Reply with quote
I'll admit I have NO IDEA what lootboxes are, whe're they're found, or how they work and why they're a problem or not. I just hear the gamer heads talk about them and some of the predatory practices that game companies use.

The only thing I hear is the debates against those that don't care vs those trying to put put out why there are bad practices in play. Because if you support it then it's going to keep happening. And then they'll complain when they were warned why it was a problem in the first place.

Though I often wonder if this extends to online social media type games. Maybe i should look into it more to get a better understanding of it. From what I quickly read it seems i may understand what they are after all. It's like any vending machine. But your odds of getting something good is based on some probability rating. And this is where the madness comes in when people have no problem tossing money into something just to get something good. And that is "predatory". This is one reason why when I play any type of online game I won't spend money. I found that when I spent money I got bored quicker vs grinding for weeks waiting for good odds. There's only so much you can do. But some people don't care about tossing their life saving away.
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Crispy45



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:48 pm Reply with quote
This is a non-fix. Japan adopted this rule long ago. People clearly see their gacha pull has a 0.25% to get what they want and they still do it.
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dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:17 pm Reply with quote
Nothing noteworthy - Japan has this rule for a long time and some of japanese games on NA market carried those rates. What I want those companies to make is an implementation of a 2-Step Verification in their shops, so none kid would be able to buy packs in FIFA with stolen parent's credit card.
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wingweaver84



Joined: 12 Feb 2016
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:04 pm Reply with quote
Chrno2 wrote:
I'll admit I have NO IDEA what lootboxes are, whe're they're found, or how they work and why they're a problem or not. I just hear the gamer heads talk about them and some of the predatory practices that game companies use.

The only thing I hear is the debates against those that don't care vs those trying to put put out why there are bad practices in play. Because if you support it then it's going to keep happening. And then they'll complain when they were warned why it was a problem in the first place.

Though I often wonder if this extends to online social media type games. Maybe i should look into it more to get a better understanding of it. From what I quickly read it seems i may understand what they are after all. It's like any vending machine. But your odds of getting something good is based on some probability rating. And this is where the madness comes in when people have no problem tossing money into something just to get something good. And that is "predatory". This is one reason why when I play any type of online game I won't spend money. I found that when I spent money I got bored quicker vs grinding for weeks waiting for good odds. There's only so much you can do. But some people don't care about tossing their life saving away.


Lootboxes allow you to obtain something rare in game,though the odds of you getting the item you want are extremely small. I'll give you an example:in Disney Magic Kingdoms,you can either buy them outright or use gems(the game's special currency)to purchase them. A legendary chest,pertaining to a specific movie,will show the odds of receiving a premium character/attraction at around 0.5%,while the more common items include decorations and tokens to level up your existing characters.

I wish that the boxes no longer existed in the game and that we were actually able to earn what we're missing.
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Chrno2



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 6112
Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:19 pm Reply with quote
wingweaver84 wrote:
Chrno2 wrote:
I'll admit I have NO IDEA what lootboxes are, whe're they're found, or how they work and why they're a problem or not. I just hear the gamer heads talk about them and some of the predatory practices that game companies use.

The only thing I hear is the debates against those that don't care vs those trying to put put out why there are bad practices in play. Because if you support it then it's going to keep happening. And then they'll complain when they were warned why it was a problem in the first place.

Though I often wonder if this extends to online social media type games. Maybe i should look into it more to get a better understanding of it. From what I quickly read it seems i may understand what they are after all. It's like any vending machine. But your odds of getting something good is based on some probability rating. And this is where the madness comes in when people have no problem tossing money into something just to get something good. And that is "predatory". This is one reason why when I play any type of online game I won't spend money. I found that when I spent money I got bored quicker vs grinding for weeks waiting for good odds. There's only so much you can do. But some people don't care about tossing their life saving away.


Lootboxes allow you to obtain something rare in game,though the odds of you getting the item you want are extremely small. I'll give you an example:in Disney Magic Kingdoms,you can either buy them outright or use gems(the game's special currency)to purchase them. A legendary chest,pertaining to a specific movie,will show the odds of receiving a premium character/attraction at around 0.5%,while the more common items include decorations and tokens to level up your existing characters.

I wish that the boxes no longer existed in the game and that we were actually able to earn what we're missing.


Thank you for that explanation. It's pretty much what I summed. This is a form of gambling when you think about it. Some people probably don't care, but some of us do. I cannot imagine a person spending a considerable amount of time on something of that nature. I can understand that it does add some level of challenge, but then there is the extreme measures and after awhile it can drive you away. Reminds me of the days when i was trying to get that one Chun Li card out of a card machine. I'd say after getting most of the characters, and dupes I say I spent close to a few dollars in quarters before I got that foil card. And there was my RAGE days. During the days of MTG, you had RAGE which was a werewolf card game. Now I understood why companies make so much off booster packs and how hard it is to get a rare card.
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GeorgeC



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 763
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:47 pm Reply with quote
I knew things were going to end badly when hard drives became part of gaming consoles.

I already heard the stories about PC games being released in Beta builds and getting numerous download fixes. How many games did I get on PS3 where every time I booted up the stupid console and wanted to play a game, I had to wait for the patch to download?

Lootboxes are just another of developers getting you to pay for something that SHOULD already be in the game and NOT have to pay additional charges for DLC. Half the time the DLC IS already in the game, you're just paying more to unlock it!
We still have $60-$70 games but the truth is they want us to pay more than that but they're not honest enough to release the full game at retail for what they want (and they KNOW $80-$90 are not going to sell well in the West) OR at least in more advanced builds other than Beta without charging extra for it!

How much longer they'll get away with these scams, I have no idea.
We still haven't had that huge industry correction I would have expected to happen after the PS2 era.
As long as the sales are decent and people put up with these garbage, the publishing houses will keep making games like this.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1153
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:29 pm Reply with quote
What's ironic about this whole thing is that actual casinos and gambling machine makers in Vegas and elsewhere like pachinko makers in Japan were worried because the younger generation of kids were not into gambling or slots as they viewed it as an 'old people's' past-time. One of the reasons they cited for this was videogames drawing a younger generation away from the casino with interactive entertainment at home and the similar stimulation that slots and chance stuff provides could be found in regular videogames.

This was all BEFORE lootboxes and mobile were a thing!

So when attempting to get younger crowds, machine makers, notably Konami were looking into using their videogame brands in casinos and pachinko parlours.

Now in an ironic twist, gambling has come to mobile and now into console games!

Developers and publishers want to get off on the technicality that since no money is being dispensed back that technically it's not 'gambling' and technically they are correct, but technically, games prey on the exact same addictive tendencies and psychological habits of people just as casinos do. And aside from not giving you anything back monetary-wise as a whole, it's still a lot worse!

Unlike the casinos, we now know there are patents and tricks developers use to psychologically stimulate players, by changing the parameters of the game in real-time based on algorithms monitoring your behaviour that will increase or decrease drop rates and loot that you get to get you to spend more money and give you a reward just when they think you're ready to stop spending or drop out. Naturally the algorithms know which players are whales and who aren't and adjust the game, rewards, match-making, difficulty etc. accordingly.

So video games are even more manipulative than casinos, and we know this because of patents they are filing which they also claim they aren't actually using... yet... so just trust them, I guess?

More should be done here by the ESRB, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo.
- Larger labels warning of it.
- Bump the rating up to more mature category.
- Implement something at the system level, much like parental controls, whereby if the user does not at all want to see lootboxes or gambling (surprise!) machanics, then once activated, the mechanisms DO NOT SHOW UP AT ALL, and are invisible and completely hidden in game. This is something that can be done moving forward with next-gen console OS, heck even now. And removing it requires you to call in to Customer Support and verify things several ways to change it. Some measures should be in place to stop addicts etc. This can easily be done, and should be available in the start-up registration process options the first time the console is used.
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meruru



Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 371
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:44 pm Reply with quote
Another regulation that could help, but would piss off game companies to no end is making it so there was some way to see in the game how much money the player has spent on micro transactions.
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Xiximaro



Joined: 03 Feb 2017
Posts: 115
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:56 pm Reply with quote
Wait... I don't know about you, but to me this means that we will start seeing console games with gaccha machines and more games with lootboxes, no?
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StarfighterPegasus



Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 75
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:59 pm Reply with quote
I'm pro lootbox, kids can only get addicted if they have a means to purchase the lootbox. Parents have to know what kind of games their children play, if you end up in debt because your child went on a spending spree with your credit card, you are to blame.
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Chrono1000



Joined: 05 Oct 2013
Posts: 1232
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:59 pm Reply with quote
StarfighterPegasus wrote:
I'm pro lootbox, kids can only get addicted if they have a means to purchase the lootbox. Parents have to know what kind of games their children play, if you end up in debt because your child went on a spending spree with your credit card, you are to blame.

If loot boxes were restricted to M rated games I could understand that position. The issue is that there is a huge number of E rated games that have loot boxes, the games are marketed towards children, and the games rely on the same psychology tricks to promote gambling that you would see in a casino. In a better world the ESRB would have restricted loot boxes to M rated games but that isn't going to happen which is why some groups are pushing for government regulation.
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