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Carole & Tuesday: A Song of Refugees and Fire


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GuruBuckaroo



Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:56 pm Reply with quote
Carole was dumped at an orphanage by her mother, because her father was in prison and her mom was a deadbeat who later went off and died. Took her father that long to get out of prison and track Carole down. Still on probation, he can't stay on Mars, so he can't stay with his daughter - yet.
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luisedgarf



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:26 pm Reply with quote
Interestingly, this show demostrates one of the darkest sides of any probable space colonization to Mars or any other planet, for that matter:

What could avoid that any country, in an attempt to get rid of any undesirable social or racial group out from the face of the earth, in this case in the literal sense of the word, could send hundreds of "colonizers" (in this case, deported, captured or expelled people) to Mars, lock them in a, either a reservation-style place in the best case, or a Martian concentration camp in the worst scenario?

Considering the current developments of space technology, what could prevent that companies like Elon Musk's SpaceX, or any private company that build cheap space rockets or any further technology for space exploration from being forced by some government to use their products for the purpose of eliminating a social or racial group from planet Earth? Since it would very difficult to prove that any kind of atrocity would be taking place in Mars for any human rights groups, forced space colonization would be a very serious concern in a distant future, something that people like Musk and their like had never considered so far, due to their very idealistic vision of space exploration.
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Tanteikingdomkey
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Joined: 03 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:07 am Reply with quote
luisedgarf wrote:
Interestingly, this show demostrates one of the darkest sides of any probable space colonization to Mars or any other planet, for that matter:

The continent of Australia says hi, would you like to see our history
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Karl Olson



Joined: 15 Dec 2010
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Location: Victoria, BC
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:17 pm Reply with quote
It's also worth noting that the Ezekiel plot line mirrors/references a real life event earlier in 2019 where rapper 21 Savage was imprisoned for a while by ICE for overstaying a Visa as a child after he added an anti-ICE camp verse while performing his latest single on Fallon. Given how music saavy Watanabe is, imagine that was something he specifically wove into the back half of Carole & Tuesday.
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Horsefellow



Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:04 pm Reply with quote
luisedgarf wrote:
Interestingly, this show demostrates one of the darkest sides of any probable space colonization to Mars or any other planet, for that matter:

What could avoid that any country, in an attempt to get rid of any undesirable social or racial group out from the face of the earth, in this case in the literal sense of the word, could send hundreds of "colonizers" (in this case, deported, captured or expelled people) to Mars, lock them in a, either a reservation-style place in the best case, or a Martian concentration camp in the worst scenario?


Wouldn't it be the exact opposite from Carole & Tuesday? Mars was the place that people wanted to live. It was the people on Earth that were trying to come and stay on the Mars colony illegally being sent back.
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luisedgarf



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:08 pm Reply with quote
Horsefellow wrote:
luisedgarf wrote:
Interestingly, this show demostrates one of the darkest sides of any probable space colonization to Mars or any other planet, for that matter:

What could avoid that any country, in an attempt to get rid of any undesirable social or racial group out from the face of the earth, in this case in the literal sense of the word, could send hundreds of "colonizers" (in this case, deported, captured or expelled people) to Mars, lock them in a, either a reservation-style place in the best case, or a Martian concentration camp in the worst scenario?


Wouldn't it be the exact opposite from Carole & Tuesday? Mars was the place that people wanted to live. It was the people on Earth that were trying to come and stay on the Mars colony illegally being sent back.


Yeah, I already know that, but the reverse could happen too in real life, and could happen sooner than we could ever imagine.

Heck, They might not need to wait for Mars to be habitable, and they could simply build rockets full of undesirable people and send them to the sun, or to some nearby planet where it is not possible to send probes to investigate, like Venus. As long as those people are dead and far away from Earth, that would be enough for any government or organization that wishes to plan a mass genocide.
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:11 pm Reply with quote
Does anyone deny that good art can be political? No one is against politics unless it is a hypocritical or aggressive preaching. I do not know people who would complain about anti-war content in Gundam or feminism in Sailor Moon.
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scrwbll19



Joined: 16 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:54 am Reply with quote
For me, Carole and Tuesday is not so much about the politics presented in the story. If anything, given the abruptness of how they come into play and end, they feel shoehorned into the overall arc of the story. For example, Valerie does run on anti-immigration policies, but her opponent, Hamilton, is the incumbent candidate in charge of the government that supposedly is pro-immigration. Even supposing that Jerry has the political clout to arrange the arrests and deportations, it makes little sense for this to happen under Hamilton's watch in a sense. Yes, it could potentially damage Hamilton's image, but the change in direction from the first season to the second is too jarring for this to really work.

Similarly, the anime ends with the concert scene and the police raiding the concert hall. I do not know if they have any sort of right for freedom of expression or speech on Mars, but the raid makes little to no sense because Hamilton is in charge, not Valerie. Also, telling the raiders to cool it and let the show go on, and they go home packing, is about a silly as it could get and beggars belief.

So, I would argue that the anime is more about loneliness and how people attempt to belong. Each of the characters comes from a different walk of life, but they all seem to want to find a way to belong somehow to something larger. Listen to the lyrics of the vast majority of the songs, especially Carole and Tuesday's songs, and you will find that loneliness is at the center of the lyrics.

My contention is that loneliness expresses itself in different ways. In our post-modern era, so many of us feel alone even when with friends and family. Music and politics via forms of tribalism become outlets of expressing one's identity and recognizing that "a man is not an island unto himself." Look at all of the artists in the Mars Brightest music contest. They all have a single thing in common: they desperately want to be recognized. Pyotr stands out in this manner by stating that he feels the need to be constantly validated. Only a truly lonely and fragile person needs this kind of validation. Music is a way to express the loneliness of the soul that Pyotr's character just flatly states.

As for the political side, politics can give people a sense of purpose and cohesion. Just a glance at historical political revolutions will show as much. Politics become an expression of a person's beliefs and worldviews, whereby they can find others who think and feel like they do. This forms a kind of tribalism, for better or for worse. Thus, one will always have in and out groups, those within the borders and boundaries of one's identity and those outside of it. This holds true for immigration policies and many other issues because there will always be people who have differing views from our own. The stronger the loneliness, the more one wants to belong, the more they will adhere to certain ideas and ideals, and the more they will oppose others who think and feel differently.

So, really, if there are any identity politics or anti versus pro-immigration issues in Carole and Tuesday, those are more of a function of the desire to belong to something greater than oneself. While these issues may be present in the story, I would argue that they are part of a bigger issue of the need to not feel alone anymore.
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Errinundra
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:30 pm Reply with quote
Post removed. If you're going to make claims about someone's alleged criminal activity at least provide a credible source.
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:27 am Reply with quote
#HayamiLover wrote:
Does anyone deny that good art can be political? No one is against politics unless it is a hypocritical or aggressive preaching. I do not know people who would complain about anti-war content in Gundam or feminism in Sailor Moon.


I don't deny that good art can be political, but I see people on the internet making that argument more or less constantly, even as I try to avoid running into it. Though I doubt even those people are really opposed to politics in art entirely--it's only a problem when they don't agree with it.

Haven't seen any Gundam to speak of, but given that it's about giant robot battles, its anti-war statements likely aren't provocative enough to catch the attention of adamant war fans (whole lotta those where I'm from). Sailor Moon also isn't hugely in-your-face with its politics, and is unlikely to be watched by anyone who can't stand feminism. Usually, what really ignites the fires of "get these politics outta mah art" is when an unfamiliar concept is perceived as invading an established genre with a particular slant (usually one appealing to young, moderately-conservative men). I don't want to throw out a specific example and start a whole off-topic argument, but it's not hard to think of some.
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Sherris



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:31 am Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
#HayamiLover wrote:
Does anyone deny that good art can be political? No one is against politics unless it is a hypocritical or aggressive preaching. I do not know people who would complain about anti-war content in Gundam or feminism in Sailor Moon.


Usually, what really ignites the fires of "get these politics outta mah art" is when an unfamiliar concept is perceived as invading an established genre with a particular slant (usually one appealing to young, moderately-conservative men).


Actually, you had a chance to witness it first-hand in discussions surrounding Shingeki no Kyojin - some people didn't like the plot twist and started to accuse the mangaka of all sorts of things.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 13773
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:33 am Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:

Sailor Moon also isn't hugely in-your-face with its politics, and is unlikely to be watched by anyone who can't stand feminism.


Heh, Sailor Moon was just on national news recently, what with the Grammy Awards last night.

CBS News anchor Gayle King interviews TIME’s Entertainer of the Year Lizzo before The 63rd Annual Grammys Awards, where the 31-year-old singer is nominated for eight Grammy Awards
Quote:
King asks Lizzo who she’d like to switch places with for one day (see video below). When pressed for an answer, Lizzo said she’d like to switch places with Sailor Moon

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B7i2fRap5wr/



Lizzo raises and waves her arm a la Sailor Moon and says, “I would just want to transform.” When asked to describe her life in one word, Lizzo doesn’t hesitate, “Magical.”

The Gayle King Grammy Special aired Thursday, January 23 at 10 pm on CBS.
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El Hermano



Joined: 24 Feb 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:11 pm Reply with quote
It's interesting to see Sailor Moon being brought up as feminist,because there's numerous people out there who've been calling it sexist for decades now because of how the original anime was helmed by male staff and changed a ton of the material from the manga, something Takeuchi herself is on record saying she hated. Or simply because of all the fanservice, sexualization, and stereotyping in the series.

I believe politics in media isn't the problem so much as the people who try to talk about them are, since a lot of the time it's just people shouting at each other and purposely being obtuse, or just being plain wrong in their assertions. Most of the truly cringe politicized media are independent works,which are usually auteur projects and not meant to be commercially successful. Carole & Tuesday was a pretty divisive show politically. Some people called it progressive, and others deem it transphobic and homophobic for how it handles the LGBT cast. As far as immigration stuff goes, I found it handled it in a fairly idealistic and naive way, especially when they started having Jerry be complicit in acts of terrorism.. Ultimately, I don't think anyone that wasn't already on their side is going to have a change of heart after watching it. But at the same time, it's so random and sudden that if you liked the show for the music aspect before that it wouldn't kill the show for you since it was a mostly tacked on aspect and not the main focus at all.
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Oggers



Joined: 29 Nov 2017
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Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:39 pm Reply with quote
El Hermano wrote:
It's interesting to see Sailor Moon being brought up as feminist,because there's numerous people out there who've been calling it sexist for decades now because of how the original anime was helmed by male staff and changed a ton of the material from the manga, something Takeuchi herself is on record saying she hated. Or simply because of all the fanservice, sexualization, and stereotyping in the series.


The thing to keep in mind about Sailor Moon is that it was created in the early 90s, so while some of its ideas were progressively feminist for the time, others weren't. Even the manga wasn't immune to having messages about femininity that wouldn't fly today (like that one Chibi Usa-centered side story about Tanabata, which has really...questionable messages about gender roles and expectations).
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BodaciousSpacePirate
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:38 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
Haven't seen any Gundam to speak of, but given that it's about giant robot battles, its anti-war statements likely aren't provocative enough to catch the attention of adamant war fans (whole lotta those where I'm from).


It heavily depends on the installment, but at the end of the day even the most anti-war Gundam outings seem fully conscious of the fact that even if they depict a character committing war crimes, they still need to convince people to buy the model kit of the giant robot he uses to commit said war crimes.
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