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This Week in Anime - Who Are the Villains of Attack on Titan?


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Johan Eriksson 9003



Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 245
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:27 am Reply with quote
Gabi is the best addition to the series since Sasha. Fite me!

Also, I think Eren's breaking point came from knowing just how far the conflict stretches. He has always been focused on just killing the titans, but when he found out that the titans were really just weapons for a very human enemy, it dawned on him that what he wanted to murder was something much wider and more complicated than just braindead monsters. That is the problem with having nothing but violence as your go-to solution.
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Marzan



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 455
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:01 am Reply with quote
johan.eriksson.9003 wrote:
Gabi is the best addition to the series since Sasha. Fite me!

Also, I think Eren's breaking point came from knowing just how far the conflict stretches. He has always been focused on just killing the titans, but when he found out that the titans were really just weapons for a very human enemy, it dawned on him that what he wanted to murder was something much wider and more complicated than just braindead monsters. That is the problem with having nothing but violence as your go-to solution.


What was he supposed to do about those that killed his mother then? He was just a kid that saw his mother get eaten in front of him. He wasn’t even a child soldier like Gabi was then. Just a kid. If Marley doesn’t send their goon squad, then Eren doesn’t have a reason to fight.
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cheshire1501



Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Posts: 38
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:06 am Reply with quote
Marzan wrote:
. If Marley doesn’t send their goon squad, then Eren doesn’t have a reason to fight.


Remember, this is the guy who killed two grown ass men at age 10
Even if you aregue that it was in self defense (there was no good reason for him to go hunting them down for begin with), his response after the fact showed that mob or not he was going to be a disaster

"I just saw dogs pretending to be humans"

A 10 year old who even then wanted to join the military ladies and gentlemen
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Generations



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 156
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:12 am Reply with quote
I don't know where the 'dad revisionist juice' came from, but it definitely wasn't that and there was never any hint Eren's actions thus far has involved that at all. Eren was never a 'normal' person as far as the story goes. He killed kidnappers without hesitation when he was just 7. If there's anything about Eren, he's incredibly consistent -- that's both a good and bad thing, because that means he's also consistently moving forward, even if that means killing innocents for the sake of his goal. Remember, both Hanji the crazy scientist and Levi the edgy Sonic both thought how horrible it was when it was revealed Titans were actually humans. Eren though? Barely gave a crap.

I like to view Gabi and Falco as representations of Reiner's past, present, and future. Gabi represents Reiner as he was, wide-eyed and believing complete obedience to a regime who thought nothing of his life would bring his people out of ruin. Falco is Reiner as he is now, realizing that there could be other ways, that this current path is a broken path that has no happy ending. Both Gabi and Falco also represent a new era, a future generation that might still be salvageable if something changes now. Unfortunately, the events of the last two episodes clearly show it might end up exactly the same as before -- you kill me and I kill you, and our descendants do the same.

Will it all change in the end? IS there an end? Eren clearly believes so, but only through the complete annihilation of his enemies, whether they be titans or humans. Whether his teammates will agree, I guess we'll soon see, or if they even do find another way.
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Johan Eriksson 9003



Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 245
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:31 am Reply with quote
Marzan wrote:

What was he supposed to do about those that killed his mother then? He was just a kid that saw his mother get eaten in front of him. He wasn’t even a child soldier like Gabi was then. Just a kid. If Marley doesn’t send their goon squad, then Eren doesn’t have a reason to fight.


I feel like there has to be some ground between "do nothing" and "commit war-crimes".

Also, as others have pointed out, Eren had no problem committing murder long before the wall fell so the claim that he wouldn't have had a reason to fight if it hadn't been for Reiner, Bertholdt and Annie is...dubious.

Eren's moral character aside, my point is that Eren has always been a person who solves his problems with violence, whether it is the right approach in that situation or not. What we are seeing now from him is the result of a person who is incapable of finding any other solutions to a problem. This is why he has gone from the energetic shounen-style protagonist to the stone-cold melancholy type. Because discovering that his enemies weren't really monsters that can be slaughtered without remorse or consequence didn't make him consider other options than violence, it just made him feel less good about it.
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Minos_Kurumada



Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:43 pm Reply with quote
I am going to place the next text in spoilers but they are not, its just a recollection of 2 past events:

spoiler[- In chapter 1 the very first thing we see Eren doing is waking up alone in a field crying for something and asking Mikasa why her hair is long and not short.

- Kruger mentioning that he was giving Grisha the Attack Titan's power in order to save Mikasa and Armin with himself not knowing what the hell was he talking about.]


This time the plot is quite in your face if you ask me.

Anyways, quite frankly I felt nothing when they attacked Marley, maybe because I don't like anybody in there.
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ThatMoonGuy



Joined: 13 Oct 2017
Posts: 249
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:50 pm Reply with quote
Reading the part about the 'revisionist juice' is really funny when you have the context of the later parts of the manga.
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R. Kasahara



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 342
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:53 pm Reply with quote
ThatMoonGuy wrote:
Reading the part about the 'revisionist juice' is really funny when you have the context of the later parts of the manga.

For real. All you anime watchers are in for some interesting times ahead...
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bennyl



Joined: 06 Apr 2019
Posts: 123
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:00 pm Reply with quote
The term war crime has been so misused since 2003, it is likely no one knows what constitutes a war crime anymore. Just because civilians become collateral damage in a war, doesn't make it a war crime. Intentionally targeting civilians is. A preemptive strike is not a war crime if it is against a military target. A head of state is a military target. It is clear the point is to show the horror of early and mid20th century warfare. I suspect the first guy to say "you know, I'm not going to stand in this nice little line and trade musket balls with the enemy, and instead hide behind this rock and shoot the commander in the head" horrified people as well. Further, to even have a war crime, you must have at least one party to a treaty on some standards of warfare.
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LightningComet



Joined: 10 Jan 2021
Posts: 17
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:26 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Now, some may chafe at the idea of following what is, quite literally, a quirky ragtag band of child soldiers. But those people also stopped watching 7 years ago so it's all cool now, yeah?


Maybe instead of only appealing to the smaller (but still sizable) number of fans remaining, why not try to get those viewers back?

Anyway, this whole arc seems like it would have been far, FAR more interesting if Falco was our main character and we never had any of the stuff before this. Make Reiner and Eren's history on Paradis Island an extended flashback or something and just get to the really intriguing parts e.g. Falco recognizing that both Reiner and Eren grew up miserable and into miserable people as a result of an old conflict so far above their heads that they have no stake in it at all and that he needs to affect change to save himself and his loved ones from the same fate. I'm honestly getting tired of "entertainment" being boring for so long just to get to something interesting.
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Johan Eriksson 9003



Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 245
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:36 pm Reply with quote
bennyl wrote:
The term war crime has been so misused since 2003, it is likely no one knows what constitutes a war crime anymore. Just because civilians become collateral damage in a war, doesn't make it a war crime. Intentionally targeting civilians is. A preemptive strike is not a war crime if it is against a military target. A head of state is a military target. It is clear the point is to show the horror of early and mid20th century warfare. I suspect the first guy to say "you know, I'm not going to stand in this nice little line and trade musket balls with the enemy, and instead hide behind this rock and shoot the commander in the head" horrified people as well. Further, to even have a war crime, you must have at least one party to a treaty on some standards of warfare.


If you drop a bomb on a military target, knowing full well that they are surrounded by civillians, then you are intentionally targeting civillians.

And they established in the first episode that war crimes and treaties are a thing here.

Seriously, let's not splir hairs here.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4779
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:37 pm Reply with quote
If you use civilians as a meat shield to protect a military target, that is on you, not your enemies.

War is Hell, no matter who's side you are on, hard decisions must be made. The ultimate question is what happens if you lose. What will your enemies do to you and yours. The answer to that question, will inform your decision on how you want the war to end.

The answer to that question in the beginning of the series, for Erin and company, was the death of everyone they knew in a Titan's stomach, including themselves.

The "Man in the High Castle" showed an America that had lost World War II. Is that an America you would like to live in and raise your kids in? Or would you do everything in your power to not lose.

This is not an easy topic to discuss, because for many people the term War Crimes is a pretty broad term.

I never liked Erin's government, because they always seemed to keep everyone in the dark. And that really was the reality of it. For Erin and company, I am willing to forgive and feel sad for them. What can you really do, when you live in the hellscape of two conflicting evil governments.
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Minos_Kurumada



Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:19 pm Reply with quote
The show only has 3 war crimes actually:

- The destrucción of both walls.

- Gaby disguising herself as a civilian in need to attack those guys un episode 1 of this season.

Can't think of another.
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Scion Drake



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 772
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:36 am Reply with quote
LightningComet wrote:
Quote:
Now, some may chafe at the idea of following what is, quite literally, a quirky ragtag band of child soldiers. But those people also stopped watching 7 years ago so it's all cool now, yeah?


Maybe instead of only appealing to the smaller (but still sizable) number of fans remaining, why not try to get those viewers back?

Anyway, this whole arc seems like it would have been far, FAR more interesting if Falco was our main character and we never had any of the stuff before this. Make Reiner and Eren's history on Paradis Island an extended flashback or something and just get to the really intriguing parts e.g. Falco recognizing that both Reiner and Eren grew up miserable and into miserable people as a result of an old conflict so far above their heads that they have no stake in it at all and that he needs to affect change to save himself and his loved ones from the same fate. I'm honestly getting tired of "entertainment" being boring for so long just to get to something interesting.


So what your saying is to basically flip everything. Ignoring that what partly makes this whole thing so interesting is the incredible far-reaching build-up that has made the entire journey shocking considering how it originally started out, a flashback of that magnitude just sounds awful.

Flashbacks should never be that long, its just an annoying story thing because then your aware that all this has already happened in the past and after a certain point you'll start thinking "Okay can we get back to the present to resolve this?". Its not a good idea.
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proper1420



Joined: 13 Mar 2016
Posts: 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:55 am Reply with quote
I have seen some nonsense written about war crimes regarding this episode, but the notion that Sasha committed a war crime by shooting uniformed enemy soldiers during a battle in a war declared by that enemy is the most absurd.

Meanwhile, Willy Tybur is credited with trying to break the cycle of violence by virtue of his novel solution of attacking Paradis. Again. Because, you know, those Titans in the Walls that we said were a threat but really weren't really are now, so we must attack Paradis because the usurper may release those Titans at any moment, although by some fluke he hasn't released them for the past four years, and attacking Paradis definitely won't cause him to release them. Isn't this awfully similar to the story that was told to the Warriors who attacked Paradis? Doesn't this seem like, rather than breaking a pattern, it's repeating one? If you take what Tybur said in his speech at face value, I suspect you're being led astray.
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