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This Week in Anime - Where There's a Will, There's Hathaway


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DarkHelmet948



Joined: 21 Jul 2020
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:29 pm Reply with quote
Just felt the need to point out that the story for these movies relates to the chars counterattack beltorchika's children version of the novel not the original mo v ie version. The endings have quite a few differences.
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JoelBurger



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, "raw, undiluted Tomino is not really something a lot of people can vibe with". That's why people have wanted an adaptation of Hathaway's Flash for decades and the movie (a pretty 1:1 adaptation of Tomino's work) is a box office and critical hit.

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crosswithyou



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:54 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
He's voiced by Junichi Sawabe in the original Japanese dub, so he's at least a fucky clown.

Junichi Suwabe Wink
And I'm pretty sure Suwabe has voiced the most number of different Gundam characters in the franchise. This is what, his 5th or so?

The Jollibee product placement cracked me up. I guess the Philippines = Jollibee even in the Gundam universe.

I've actually not watched the original Gundam series. From the UC timeline, I've seen 0083, 8th MS Team, Unicorn, and Origin. I assume watching the movies would give a good rundown of the series and will need to do that one of these days... Even without having watched the original series or movies though, I have a good idea of the background.

I also gotta say that the animation is absolutely spectacular. Wow. One of factors that's kept me from watching the original is the outdated animation. The visuals of these more recent works are definitely more palpable.
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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:56 pm Reply with quote
I won't spoil anything that could happen later but I should warn you, Nicky and Steve, you are walking into a giant shaggy dog story.

Also, I know that there some notable Gundam fans with leftist views who like to make readings of Tomino's work here as being on their side but I think that is a something of a reach. Tomino's messages in Gundam from about Zeta to Victory (The era in which the Hathaway novels were written) tend to land on "Sure, the Earth Federation is corrupt, elitist and often maliciously incompetent but those that seek to replace it are always much worse." "Real revolutionary change is impossible in this world." "Adults and their lies will always ruin the hopes of the future." and "Newtypes cannot save the world either because they too are still petty and irrational humans."

Tomino was up until Turn A, a political and philosophical pessimist of the highest order.
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JoelBurger



Joined: 14 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:02 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
Tomino's messages in Gundam from about Zeta to Victory (The era in which the Hathaway novels were written) tend to land on "Sure, the Earth Federation is corrupt, elitist and often maliciously incompetent but those that seek to replace it are always much worse." "Real revolutionary change is impossible in this world." "Adults and their lies will always ruin the hopes of the future." and "Newtypes cannot save the world either because they too are still petty and irrational humans."


That reading of Zeta would have to ignore what actually happens in the series, which is that the Titans only rise to power because the Earth Federation allows it to happen - the Titans aren't an aberration, but an extension of the Earth Federation's policies and ideals. Ever since the first series, Tomino has always been very explicit that larger systems of power are untenable and ultimately lead to oppression and subjugation - and the only recourse is smaller units, like the found family of White Base. You might not agree with that stance, but it is an oversimplification to boil down his views to "everything is screwed either way".
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:02 pm Reply with quote
I'm glad I'm not the only one who heard his name as "Lame Aim." I can't imagine that wasn't intentional.

There was like a Newtype flash moment where Hathaway could seemingly hear Gigi's thoughts about the fake Mafty before she actually said it (or was that Quess?). She also said she can tell when someone is lying, which I feel like might be a Newtype thing.

I did feel like introducing Hathway/Mafty's crew in the third act was a little too late, but I guess we'll see if we get more time with them in the second movie now that Hathaway is with them for the long-haul.

It's probably for the best that Mafty and co. don't know about how part of Char's motivation was just to fight his rival again out of revenge for killing his Newtype "mommy."
DarkHelmet948 wrote:
Just felt the need to point out that the story for these movies relates to the chars counterattack beltorchika's children version of the novel not the original mo v ie version. The endings have quite a few differences.

I was kind of wondering about that. They never really address the fact that Hathaway killed Chan, which wasn't in the novel version, but I feel like we're supposed to assume the animated version of CCA's is canon to this movie.
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Zeino



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:18 pm Reply with quote
JoelBurger wrote:
That reading of Zeta would have to ignore what actually happens in the series, which is that the Titans only rise to power because the Earth Federation allows it to happen - the Titans aren't an aberration, but an extension of the Earth Federation's policies and ideals. Ever since the first series, Tomino has always been very explicit that larger systems of power are untenable and ultimately lead to oppression and subjugation - and the only recourse is smaller units, like the found family of White Base. You might not agree with that stance, but it is an oversimplification to boil down his views to "everything is screwed either way".


And the reading of the Titans as being an extension of the Earth Federation's policies and ideals gets undermined by the revelation in Zeta episode 21 backed by supplement material that it's leadership wants to cause a war with the colonies that will make the Federation collapse and create a new order in space under their control. Thus the Titans are rendered a group of bad actors in the system and not a natural part of the system itself.
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JoelBurger



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:25 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
And the reading of the Titans as being an extension of the Earth Federation's policies and ideals gets undermined by the revelation in Zeta episode 21 backed by supplement material that it's leadership wants to cause a war with the colonies that will make the Federation collapse and create a new order in space under their control. Thus the Titans are rendered a group of bad actors in the system and not a natural part of the system itself.


They are a natural byproduct of the system, and one the Earth Federation endorsed. The "bad actors" interpretation is only possible because of 0083, and I don't know why you're trying to bring in supplementary material not written by Tomino and contradictory to his own works to try to make a point about Tomino.
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Zeino



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:31 pm Reply with quote
JoelBurger wrote:
Zeino wrote:
And the reading of the Titans as being an extension of the Earth Federation's policies and ideals gets undermined by the revelation in Zeta episode 21 backed by supplement material that it's leadership wants to cause a war with the colonies that will make the Federation collapse and create a new order in space under their control. Thus the Titans are rendered a group of bad actors in the system and not a natural part of the system itself.


They are a natural byproduct of the system, and one the Earth Federation endorsed. The "bad actors" interpretation is only possible because of 0083, and I don't know why you're trying to bring in supplementary material not written by Tomino and contradictory to his own works to try to make a point about Tomino.

Go watch Zeta episode 21 again where Scirocco gives a speech about the Titans' agenda.
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JoelBurger



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:34 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
Go watch Zeta episode 21 again where Scirocco gives a speech about the Titans' agenda.


Go watch Zeta again, where the creation of the Titans is absolutely not presented as the conspiratorial machinations of a couple bad actors, but an extension of Earth Federation policy seen since the first series.
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Deacon Blues



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:44 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I was admittedly a bit apprehensive about this because of that. For those of you unaware, MSG Hathaway is actually based on a trilogy of light novels written by Tomino himself in 1989, and many fans don't really seem to regard them well. Raw, undiluted Tomino is not really something a lot of people can vibe with and for many it risked this first film coming out totally dated, among other things.


First of all, which "fans" are you referring to? The English side or the Japanese side? On the Japanese side, the novels are held in very high regard simply because they're character-driven for a change and the mobile suit action is entirely secondary. I mean, the only reason why this movie is crushing it in the box office is because they've been adapted and they've been adapted quite well. Sure, they could've been done forever and a day ago but the inability to choreograph the fight scenes in decent enough CG or animation prevented that (or so it's claimed by staff on the movie, but that's an entirely different argument).

Plus, let's look at the fact that the novels have had brand new revised editions released by Tomino (with updates), which have sold out, as well as reprints of the old versions that've also sold out. So again, tell us how this isn't regarded that well by fans? Take a gander at Twitter and you'll see all sorts of posts about how moviegoers remembered when they first came out, where they were or what they were doing at the time they were reading them, taking into account what was going on at the time in the world and in Japan. This particular novel series hardly classifies itself as a "raw, undiluted" version of Tomino anyways. You should really check out some of the other novels he's penned that have a much more blistering commentary of things woven into them.

Edit: I see you're a newcomer to the franchise, so that does give you a minor benefit of the doubt.


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John the Dark Lord



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:29 pm Reply with quote
crosswithyou wrote:
Quote:
He's voiced by Junichi Sawabe in the original Japanese dub, so he's at least a fucky clown.

Junichi Suwabe Wink
And I'm pretty sure Suwabe has voiced the most number of different Gundam characters in the franchise. This is what, his 5th or so?


Takehito Koyasu says "Hi".
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crosswithyou



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:28 pm Reply with quote
John the Dark Lord wrote:
Takehito Koyasu says "Hi".


Shocked Shocked Shocked
Gotta admit, I had to look up how many different characters he's voiced since I can only think of two off the top of my head, but he's around the same as Suwabe. Didn't realize he had done that many.

I still smile a bit whenever I hear Koyasu in an anime nowadays since he's not really in the spotlight anymore but he's never forgotten.
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TranceLimit174



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:27 pm Reply with quote
MFrontier wrote:
DarkHelmet948 wrote:
Just felt the need to point out that the story for these movies relates to the chars counterattack beltorchika's children version of the novel not the original mo v ie version. The endings have quite a few differences.

I was kind of wondering about that. They never really address the fact that Hathaway killed Chan, which wasn't in the novel version, but I feel like we're supposed to assume the animated version of CCA's is canon to this movie.


In the brief flashbacks we get to the end of CCA, we see the Nu Gundam (movie) as opposed to the Hi-Nu (novel), so safe to say the animated movie is canon to these films. I've seen some speculate that this could be a subtle set-up for a different ending from the novels.

Steve wrote:
As for the Xi Gundam itself, I'm no robot connoisseur, so I can't really comment on its design.


The Penelope is essentially a prototype of the Xi, and the big deal with these Gundams is that they have high mobility in Earth's atmosphere. Previously that could only be accomplished with a transforming MS (see: Zeta) or MA. The Penelope has that giant flight pack attached to it, whereas the Xi has its flight capabilities incorporated onto the MS itself. Also, those missiles are apparently "Funnel Missiles," because I-Fields negate beam weaponry. Personally, while I appreciate the creative detail behind these Gundams, they are still way too bulky for my taste.

As for the movie itself, I was really surprised by how invested I got considering A. I find Hathaway & Quess in CCA to be insufferable & B. The Gundam action was the weakest element and I didn't care. Also, I think getting the "Hathaway is Mafty" reveal early on helps establish how he is an amalgam of Amuro & Char; he's trying to be the best of both men, but finds himself repeating their worst failings.

One of my favorite meme-y things about the UC is that Newtypes just feel so hard for each other, and that deep psychological understanding justifies all the awkward character interactions and that was in top form here with Gigi.

Nicky wrote:
Mafty, full name Mafty Navue Erin, the most Tomino name that has ever Tomino'd, is the alias of our main character, Hathaway Noa.


One of the best moments in the film for me is when Gigi points out the national origins of Mafty's name, and subsequently low-key how absurd it is.


Overall I found MSG Hathaway to be really engaging, but it is incomprehensible to anyone not familiar with core UC Gundam. One of the big things too is that if someone sticks to just 0079 and CCA before going into this, is that they will have no reference for Anaheim Electronics which is introduced in Zeta and remains a huge background player throughout the UC, including setting up the Xi Gundam for Hathaway during the retrieval scene. So yeah, great movie, but definitely not for entry-level UC Gundam fans.
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tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:53 pm Reply with quote
Is Unicorn canon? Cos I'm confused with the way the writers are streaming Char. In cca he committed mass genocide and nearly destroyed Earth with Axis. He is pretty much Gary stu or Vegeta in the buu arc. Both committed overthetop crimes yes everybody ignores that. On the other hand, Full Frontal felt like the karma finally got to Char because of how he is reacted especially by that orange haired girl from Zeon
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