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NEWS: Niigata Police Arrest Man for Offering Game Mod Service for Zelda Game




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Mirvana



Joined: 09 Feb 2019
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:55 am Reply with quote
We truly live in Hellworld when gameshark-ing your save is now criminal...
Maybe there's other details that make what he's doing ACTUAL illegal (like some degree of copyright infringement in advertising the service, etc) but, as-is... hooboi...
Nintendo straight up saying you don't even own your save data...
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Azumi14



Joined: 09 Dec 2015
Posts: 55
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:19 am Reply with quote
If if single player - who cares. I find it hard to believe ninety thousand US dollars on single player mods only. He may of been involved on PVE and PVP cheats which is a major problem. COD I hear is unplayable due to mod cheaters.
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Mirvana



Joined: 09 Feb 2019
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:30 am Reply with quote
Yeah if he was developing hacking software for online things I totally agree that needs to be shut down. But all the article (currently) lists is the BotW save-data manipulations which (to me) is so hilariously "Not A Problem" that I hope more information comes out on everything he was doing because there HAS to be some bigger offense to warrant arrest over a C&D.

Maybe there's some save-data manip that lets you jailbreak your Switch? Though even piracy modding usually only gets the C&D treatment unless you're also say distributing pirated games (maybe he already got a C&D, but continued anyway, which probably WOULD lead to arrest and might not be a detail always included in early reports).
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 470
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:49 am Reply with quote
While I haven't scoured this particular game's ToS, yes, in fact most software make it explicitly clear that it is a violation of the ToS and illegal to manipulate their data in any way. There are usually carveouts that state what ways you can use the software, but typically it very explicitly states the guardrails, and manipulating the code itself is usually a red line.

This is again a situation where what the casual person hears/has heard over the years, as well as general passiveness from the rights holders in enforcing these things, has led to the general confusion of the average person about what is and isn't allowed. People see the posts online all the time about folks modding their games, not realizing that if not for the cost and typical difficulty of catching up to any one modder or fighting a site hosting such info, the game companies would fight this stuff much more vigorously.
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Amaranth Sparrow



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 85
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:21 am Reply with quote
DRosencraft wrote:
While I haven't scoured this particular game's ToS, yes, in fact most software make it explicitly clear that it is a violation of the ToS and illegal to manipulate their data in any way.

Violating ToS has historically not been regarded as criminal, it basically is just allows companies to terminate your service.

It's possible that modifying save data falls under some vague IP or computer crime law, but this is such a massive overreach that it's really inexcusable. I honestly really don't know how Nintendo maintains such a "good guy" image given how litigious and anti-consumer they are.
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Dragon_Kaiser



Joined: 27 Aug 2018
Posts: 104
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:31 am Reply with quote
Mirvana wrote:
We truly live in Hellworld when gameshark-ing your save is now criminal...
Maybe there's other details that make what he's doing ACTUAL illegal (like some degree of copyright infringement in advertising the service, etc) but, as-is... hooboi...
Nintendo straight up saying you don't even own your save data...



Amaranth Sparrow wrote:
DRosencraft wrote:
While I haven't scoured this particular game's ToS, yes, in fact most software make it explicitly clear that it is a violation of the ToS and illegal to manipulate their data in any way.

Violating ToS has historically not been regarded as criminal, it basically is just allows companies to terminate your service.

It's possible that modifying save data falls under some vague IP or computer crime law, but this is such a massive overreach that it's really inexcusable. I honestly really don't know how Nintendo maintains such a "good guy" image given how litigious and anti-consumer they are.


This really isn’t Nintendo’s fault when this is a stupid law that’s been in place in Japan for sometime now
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 470
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:35 am Reply with quote
Amaranth Sparrow wrote:
DRosencraft wrote:
While I haven't scoured this particular game's ToS, yes, in fact most software make it explicitly clear that it is a violation of the ToS and illegal to manipulate their data in any way.

Violating ToS has historically not been regarded as criminal, it basically is just allows companies to terminate your service.

It's possible that modifying save data falls under some vague IP or computer crime law, but this is such a massive overreach that it's really inexcusable. I honestly really don't know how Nintendo maintains such a "good guy" image given how litigious and anti-consumer they are.


As I noted, most ToS violations are on an individual and minor level that costs more in time, effort, and cash to chase down, so simply banning the violator is all they do, if that much. But the ToS again are usually pretty explicit about what penalties are possible. Violators have typically gotten by on the gamble that nothing substantive will happen, and usually they're right. But this person made north of $90K over an 18-month period. You make that brazen a gamble, you're going to attract attention and they're going to enforce their contract.
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Erulogos



Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:45 am Reply with quote
I suspect the issue is him actually making significant money from his game save mod. The majority of (non PvP cheat, non console jailbreak) mods are distributed freely, many are even open sourced. It reads like this fellow wasn't just putting up a save editor download for people to play with, he was doing some amount of the editing for them and getting paid, thus the (technical if not actual) 'unfair competition' he's charged with.

Though as far as IP laws go, Japan has rather harsh enforcement of stricter than usual (at least compared to the US and similar) laws, with a lot of matters being considered criminal rather than civil. Articles pop up here from time to time about folks being arrested and later sentenced in Japan, even extradited from other countries to facilitate that, rather than cease and desisted and/or sued as would happen in the US.
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gsilver



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 460
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:20 pm Reply with quote
How is this even a problem? I don't care how much money he made. I've owned a number of devies like Action Replay, Code Breaker, and Game Genie, and they could (quite legally) be purchased at any Walmart or Gamestop back in the day.

According to Wikipedia, the founder of Datel (makers of Action Replay) is one of the UK's thousand richest people. Clearly, even making a fortune with single-player cheats is fine as far as most of the world is concerned.
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omoikane



Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 457
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:44 pm Reply with quote
There is illegal, and there is the kind of illegal that is criminal.
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2019/01/game-modding-illegal-in-japan-punishable-by-prison-and-fines/
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ZelosZoidberg



Joined: 23 May 2018
Posts: 233
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:34 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
This really isn’t Nintendo’s fault when this is a stupid law that’s been in place in Japan for sometime now
Yeah if this was in America or another country I would take issue. The problem is Japanese law. At this point I'm amazed that doujinshi is still allowed considering it is technically illegal since Japan has no "fair use" law in place.
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 470
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:31 pm Reply with quote
ZelosZoidberg wrote:
Quote:
This really isn’t Nintendo’s fault when this is a stupid law that’s been in place in Japan for sometime now
Yeah if this was in America or another country I would take issue. The problem is Japanese law. At this point I'm amazed that doujinshi is still allowed considering it is technically illegal since Japan has no "fair use" law in place.


The doujinshi example has been brought up many times in the past. The doujin market would be illegal in most other areas of the world, and technically is illegal in Japan as well, if not for the verbal agreement between the studios and the artists not to prosecute.

Here's an example that might help many folks understand;

Have you ever seen a broadcast of a sporting event like the NBA, NFL, MLB? Usually at some point during the broadcast the announcer will state; "This broadcast is the property of the commissioner of "insert sports league" and may not be recorded or rebroadcast without the express written permission of "insert sports league." You've likely heard this countless times and paid it no mind. But it clearly states, and is enforceable, that you cannot record and replay the game. So that big championship game that you wanted to keep and watch again, or that game that you really want to see, but you're going to be out so you'll miss it, technically you have to miss it. Except that the sports leagues have in writing a carve out that allows you to record those programs for personal use, so you're safe. There's no special provision of copyright law that protects you. Now, if someone started trying to run an ESPN level gig where they have all these sports on display and do it without getting any clearance or authorization first, then that quick 10-second spiel during the broadcast is what will get them.

Like one of my law professors once said, the law is the law; ignore it at your own peril.
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Firefly251



Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 318
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:32 pm Reply with quote
Mirvana wrote:
We truly live in Hellworld when gameshark-ing your save is now criminal...
Maybe there's other details that make what he's doing ACTUAL illegal (like some degree of copyright infringement in advertising the service, etc) but, as-is... hooboi...
Nintendo straight up saying you don't even own your save data...


thats not the issue.


they dont liek modding ur stuff and can ban u from online service but thats it. not illegal.

HOWEVER selling hacking/modding services IS agasint the law.


the issue is the exchange of $.
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Horsefellow



Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:29 am Reply with quote
Firefly251 wrote:
they dont liek modding ur stuff and can ban u from online service but thats it. not illegal.

HOWEVER selling hacking/modding services IS agasint the law.

the issue is the exchange of $.


Pretty much. Even western companies do this. I remember when Fortnight sued a 13 year old kid for selling mods/cheats. Just don't try to make money off this stuff and you're good. It's profiting off another person's IP.
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gsilver



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 460
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:50 pm Reply with quote
I guess that the difference with Action Replay/Code Breaker was that they were indirect.
You had to jump through some weird hoops to get codes, unlike the old Game Genies, that had a book of codes in the box.[/i]
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