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Abarenbo Shogun
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 1573
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:58 am |
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Interesting discussion I had with the "Manga expert" at the local bookstore today. His rant seems to be blaming equally his employers and the publishers themselves.
Note: parts of the discussion have been edited to protect the "experts" job and where he works.
| Quote: | | (pointless ramble about customers and how they suck edited out)...I mean, look at my section. Now, imagine 3 of these shelves as inventory. Thats how much "inventory" I have just gathering dust in the back. Most are multiples of (title), (title), (title), and (title). I mean, who thought I would need 25 copies of (title) when the last volume only sold 7 units? And the entire series up until (Volume #) only sold on par at least 9 units?! And don't get me started on (This might be a confidential marketing strategy, edited out). They "promise" such things, yet never deliver. You know how many possible sales I could've made with (title) and (title) but never had the volumes to back them up due to their (censored)-ups? For my store, I could've pushed 75 units, which could've translated to (confidential marketing strategy? edited out) being sold. 75!! But the manga buyer is an idiot to even notice it.
And that doesn't include the titles that haven't sold period and are just gathering dust on the shelves. If I had it my way, i'd excise most of TOKYOPOP's OEL and Manwha stuff, because their not selling period. Theirs just too much titles for little space. TOKYOPOP seems to be concerned more on quantity rather than quality. Most of the stuff I want to get rid of or aren't selling are TOKYOPOP titles. Do I really need to stock (several Manhwa titles listed) when it shows I never sold any of them for almost a year? As of late, I have ZERO returns concerning Manga and Graphic Novels. Most of it is taking up space, so get them back to the warehouse and open up the room for titles that deserve the space!!
Speaking of which, I do have to give credit to Del Ray and DMP at least, because they have small quanitites, good titles, and haven't flooded me with inventory. Viz is a hit or miss. Sometimes I get the right ammounts, other times i'm wondering "where the hell is my stock?" The "Independents" are also a hit or miss. CMX, lousy editing aside, is a hit or miss.
*Me asked question*
...Yeah, well, the fault is with both of them. TOKYOPOP needs to pare down their selections (because frankly, 25% of them are pure BS anyway) and I hope our Manga buyer can get his head outta his ass and proeprly do his job right and cleanup my section and give me the stock I need to sell. |
So is the "expert" right? His woes is the cause of his employers and the manga companies?
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joel_s95387
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1804
Location: California... The Village Hidden In The Porn
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:29 am |
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The rant was really hard to understand. So this was some random guy saying that, a regular employee, or a higher up of this book store?
Well, I think its the fault of whom-ever orders that many volumes to begin with. Flooding the shelves with the same volume will not guarantee a sale. Sometimes I see so many vol.1 of a certain title and wonder if there is a reason they are still on the shelf, cause they suck.
I also blame the people who don't spend money. By those people I mean the ones who go to stores, Borders for example, and sit in a chair, read the entire volume, then put it back and walk out of the store. I see this happen all the time. it may cost a bit more, but if all titles after volume 1 were shrink wrapped, the sale numbers might be way higher. Why do I say volumes after volume 1? Because people may read volume 1 and recommend it to friends, now those people either buy it, or completely stop reading it. They weren't paying to begin with so these manga companies don't lose anything. Shrink wrap is not "people proof", but it may have some people think twice. And most stores force you to pay for stuff you opened.
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fighterholic
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:30 am |
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Interesting discussion, as I work in retail myself. The thing is sometimes we get in inventory that we don't even need, if that's what he's talking about. On top of that, when it doesn't sell, yes, it does get in the way and we have to find a way to get rid of it or wait for the recall, which is an awful long time. The "employers" don't seem to be looking at the inventory numbers, just what's popular or not and making a bad call.
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joel_s95387
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1804
Location: California... The Village Hidden In The Porn
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:40 am |
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My local comic/anime/manga/card shop has many random titles on their shelf. I ask the owner why hey don't order the first couple of volumes since they should help sales for the later volumes. They got about 3 of each volume Naruto 1-8, and they sold quickly along with some of their random volumes collecting dust on the shelf. People picked up 1-8, and volumes 10 and 11, when only 10 and 11 were on the shelf. The same pile of random manga titles on their damn shelves.
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fighterholic
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:44 am |
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I think though, depending upon the manga title might determine whether it sells or not. Then there's also the name of the company responsible for putting that title on the shelves of our stores.
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marie-antoinette
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4136
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:23 am |
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My local comic book store has the opposite problem, I think: not enough titles. The main problem I expect is that last year the store became part of a larger, movie rentals/sales store, so now there is less focus on the manga (the comics come in fairly regularily though). So they've had the same titles sitting on the shelves for well-over a year now and not much (if anything) new has come in, unless you specifically order it. And all the stuff they have now is stuff that doesn't sell (apparently).
It's a shame, if they had other inventory I would buy something, but there's really nothing (except vol 1 of Hana Yori Dango, which I'm trying to avoid because the series is so long).
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LydiaDianne
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Southern California
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:48 pm |
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| fighterholic wrote: | | Interesting discussion, as I work in retail myself. The thing is sometimes we get in inventory that we don't even need, if that's what he's talking about. On top of that, when it doesn't sell, yes, it does get in the way and we have to find a way to get rid of it or wait for the recall, which is an awful long time. The "employers" don't seem to be looking at the inventory numbers, just what's popular or not and making a bad call. |
Interesting. I work for a major national department store myself and personally I think that the buyers live in an ivory tower and do hard-core drugs. And when they leave their tower, they NEVER go to the smaller stores in the suburbs but only go to the high-end, rich-folks, flagship stores. Because half the clothing they buy, all you can do is shake your head...would YOU want YOUR grandma looking like a low-rent hooker? But, at least the company that I work for recognizes when stuff doesn't sell, they get rid of it quickly. Sometimes they just don't understand that what sells in New York WILL NOT sell in the suburbs of Southern California.
As for the manga sales, unless the manager/buyers/or whoever are on the ball keeping an eye on what sells or doesn't then yes, they are going to sit. I think that people in the individual stores might need to be pro-active and CALL the higher-ups and say "we haven't sold (title) in 4 months and we have (X # of vols.), what can we do to get something new.
The stores need to work with the buyers and let them know what is selling or not. That's why my favorite manga store is a small one and the manager KNOWS what is and isn't selling and takes the bad back to the distributor. And rides their butt about getting in the titles that do sell.
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HitokiriShadow
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:57 pm |
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I've never really thought about the guys that actually order the manga. But it does make sense that they share part of the blame, since they are the guys ordering more and more copies of the stuff that isn't selling (I had to wonder why Borders had about 12 copies of Busuo Renkin vol. 2; I'm pretty sure vol. 1 wasn't a huge seller).
However, I still think Tokyopop is a big part of the problem by putting out so many different series in the first place (they seem to start 3-4 new series every month) when they are slowing down their long running series (SDK is over in Japan, but it will be 5 years before we see the end because TP is releasing it quarterly), supposedly because of a market flood and because book stores want more time to sell their stock.
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fighterholic
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:06 pm |
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| LydiaDianne wrote: | | Interesting. I work for a major national department store myself and personally I think that the buyers live in an ivory tower and do hard-core drugs. And when they leave their tower, they NEVER go to the smaller stores in the suburbs but only go to the high-end, rich-folks, flagship stores. Because half the clothing they buy, all you can do is shake your head...would YOU want YOUR grandma looking like a low-rent hooker? But, at least the company that I work for recognizes when stuff doesn't sell, they get rid of it quickly. Sometimes they just don't understand that what sells in New York WILL NOT sell in the suburbs of Southern California.
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Yeah, it's really hard to try and get a service plan to go with a printer these days. Especially when you work with customer so long, you get all these things for them, be friendly with them, and then they turn around and stab you in the back and not buy the plan.
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Richard J.
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:38 pm |
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| HitokiriShadow wrote: | | However, I still think Tokyopop is a big part of the problem by putting out so many different series in the first place (they seem to start 3-4 new series every month) when they are slowing down their long running series (SDK is over in Japan, but it will be 5 years before we see the end because TP is releasing it quarterly), supposedly because of a market flood and because book stores want more time to sell their stock. | They probably think that putting out new titles constantly keeps them in the public eye.
Also, is Tokyopop putting out newly licensed series at that rate or is it OEL creations? Only thing I've ever bought of their OEL line is Van Von Hunter, which is actually pretty hilarious in my opinion. If they're putting out OEL titles at the rate of 3-4 new series every month, then I don't know what they are thinking. Probably shows that OELs are considerably cheaper than Japanese manga.
If they are putting out newly licensed titles at a rate of 3-4 new series a month, then they probably are doing so to keep their in-house translators and editors working and to keep name recognition high. (Assuming they use in-house staff. If they don't, they may be doing it so that don't lose connections with competent free-lancers.)
If its a mix, it probably means that want to tap into both the actual manga buying audience as well as the OEL audience. There must be cross-over, but I think that the people who buy the OELs regularly are more likely people in the process of leaving the basic US comics market.
On the buying side, I can see ordering a lot of copies of Volume 1, but when they don't sell it doesn't make sense to be picking up huge numbers for 2-X. Also, I like the shrink wrap it after Volume 1 idea joel_s95387!
I've recently started reading Ai Yori Aoshi and when I tried to pick up Volume 3 at my nearest Borders (which is an hour away from where I live by the by) it was in terrible shape! It had obviously been read through dozens of times! The spine was shaped like a U, pages were bent, spider creases every where and the cover was cuffed. No one in their right mind would pay for a book in that shape except at a used bookstore and even then they might think twice!
Found a better copy at Books-A-Million fortunately. Their chairs are over in the magazine section so people don't mangle the manga as much.
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Abarenbo Shogun
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 1573
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:49 pm |
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| joel_s95387 wrote: | | The rant was really hard to understand. So this was some random guy saying that, a regular employee, or a higher up of this book store? |
Thank you for ignoring this part:
| Quote: | | Interesting discussion I had with the "Manga expert" at the local bookstore today. His rant seems to be blaming equally his employers and the publishers themselves.
Note: parts of the discussion have been edited to protect the "experts" job and where he works. |
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Eddie_S
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 10
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:05 pm |
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It's hard to address the particular issues without more specifics but as a publisher we work really hard to put out as good a product as possible. And in that process we'll get things right, and other times we may get some things wrong but this is all done with the intent of putting out a great product. No one is trying to fail here. Sometimes there are considerations invisible to the end user that "compromise" a specific release.
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FeralKat
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 402
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:48 pm |
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| Richard J. wrote: | I've recently started reading Ai Yori Aoshi and when I tried to pick up Volume 3 at my nearest Borders (which is an hour away from where I live by the by) it was in terrible shape! It had obviously been read through dozens of times! The spine was shaped like a U, pages were bent, spider creases every where and the cover was cuffed. No one in their right mind would pay for a book in that shape except at a used bookstore and even then they might think twice!
Found a better copy at Books-A-Million fortunately. Their chairs are over in the magazine section so people don't mangle the manga as much. |
This pisses me off so much! I live within walking distance of my Borders (much to the displeasure of my wallet... >_>), and especially on the weekends, I see, no exaggeration, 9 kids sitting on the floor reading like it's a library! I've seen parents drop their kids off in the manga section like it's a daycare! I've never seen any of these kids buy anything either (and some of them are 'regulars.') I don't even know if the shrinkwrapping thing would work, since I've watched kids rip the plastic right off, not even caring if someone was watching them... (When I was in Japan, EVERYTHING was shrinkwrapped! I loved getting my manga in pristine condition. :3)
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HitokiriShadow
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:58 pm |
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Shrinkwrap really doesn't do much. If someone wants to read something in the store, they'll remove the shrinkwrap and they'll read it anyway.
I haven't had to worry about books being in crappy condition too much. Yellowing from sitting on the shelves for a while (or right under a flourescent light in one store) has been my main concern. However, recently the Borders store I usually go to has had issues with sticking security stickers on the inside of the cover, which tears it (a lot) when you try to take it off. Or when they do stick it on the pages, it has too much adhesive and tears the pages.
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chicogrande
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 190
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:51 am |
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| Quote: | | [i] TOKYOPOP needs to pare down their selections (because frankly, 25% of them are pure BS anyway).... |
And to prove the point, read the reviews for Battle Club and My-Hime. In fact, It seems appropriate that 2 of 3 Tokyopop titles featured in the ANN hompage are substandard. Maybe that rate is close to reality when it comes to their overall manga releases.
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