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Tokyopop Initial D thoughts...


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danbeck



Joined: 13 Jul 2002
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:39 pm Reply with quote
Well.. their open letter was all and good. I'm glad they enjoyed manga as a kid and I'm glad they like Initial D...

But.. what it comes down to is... they don't give a crap what the fans would like to purchase. They are more interested in three non-manga people in each city that might decide to pickup this weirdly named manga at a suncoast. At least they won't be offended by damned Japanese names, at least they won't be offended by seeing anything that's not American!

*sigh*

This wednesday when I go to pickup my manga, I'm going to ask the store owner to take Initial D off my list. I'm not buying 90% Authentic manga.

I can too easily get real un-cut, unaltered forms of Inital D released by the MangaProject manga translation group on the Net. They've already translated several volumes of Initial D and guess what they don't remove the sex scenes.. they don't change the names to american names and they couldn't give a rats ass if they matchup with a anime release or if the sun is green.

Maybe I'll buy the collector's addition... maybe not... Tokyopop.. you are loosing a customer here... if you start screwing around with your other titles worse than you already do (Chobits, Love Hina) you will lose me as a customer completely.. both of those can also be gotten from the net with better translations and 100% authentic and free.

I will tell you this Tokyopop. When you release volume two and it's sales drop off considerably and you realize just how bad you screwed up.. you better re-release volume 2 in 100% authentic form.. or I'm not coming back. I won't pick up at volume 3 and I sure as hell won't buy your crappy volume 2.

You know Tokyopop.. this is a new century.. not the 1950's where American children call those slanty eyed people Japanese and Chinks. Maybe you should move from that era also? Your 100% authentic line isn't even close. As a matter of fact, I think you don't even give a damn about how authentic it is.. it's just easier because you have to do so much less work to put out your manga.

I should stop.. I'm getting really irate now...
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Armblessed



Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 20
Location: Alaska
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 9:01 pm Reply with quote
I agree with you Danbeck.
I saw Initial D at my local comic shop and almost bought it. I ended up deciding on something else and now I am glad I did. After hearing about their edits I will not buy Initial D and I am now wary about getting any other manga from Tokyopop.
When books I buy are edited I feel cheated. I want to read what the author intended as much as possible. If I want to read comics with an American(English language and culture) feel, I buy American comics. Thats one of the things I like about manga, it has a different feel to it.
I think its true what you say Danbeck, that Tokyopop and other companies dont care about the fans who will truly appreciate the manga, but in simply gaining a few more generic readers.
I'm also bothered by the fact that they feel the need to edit it for content. If the book was not meant for a young audience, then dont try to make it that way.
I suppose its just all about the "all ighty ollar". Tokyopop wants money rather than loyal fans. Though I cant fault them completely for that.
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Cgoten



Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 390
Location: Glenview, Illinois
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 9:54 pm Reply with quote
Armblessed wrote:

When books I buy are edited I feel cheated. I want to read what the author intended as much as possible.


I know what you mean. I don't plan on buying Initial D either and I can only hope they don't start doing this to Love Hina and Real Bout.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 14630
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 2:02 am Reply with quote
The bad news is I disagree with the editorial. The good news is I respect you mentioning it in a separate section, and not with the actual press release, unlike a certain guy whose last name is a synonym for a drink. I think one of the common misconceptions is that Japanese manga (like anime) is always written the way the creator intended. But if they're publishing the series in a major magazine(such as, say, Jump), the author will sometimes have to change the story to encourage
that particular demographic to continue buying the series. (For example, everyone knows about how Toriyama wanted to kill DBZ after the Cell Saga, but because it was so popular, he had to include Buu in the mix.)

Then of course, some of the content will be edited, so parent groups in Japan don't complain. (Genital shading anyone? Hell, it took 20 years before they ever released the pages that were excised from the final printing of Violence Jack!) So the idea of a "100% Authentic" manga is flawed to begin with anyway.

Now I know many of you are ready to have the people at Tokyopop's heads for the name changes in Initial D, even though the press release had rational arguments for its decision. But just remember that many of us grew up with Yuffie being called Battle Angel Alita, or Kei being called Kay, and we didn't overreact. And I think at $10 a book, I'm still getting a good deal for my money, unlike other companies which still lack any competitive pricing for their manga, despite their edits. But if you're going to whine about every minor change, then anime/manga will never succeed here. (Though I have a feeling that's the goal of most otaku.)
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bakachild



Joined: 14 Jul 2002
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 2:59 am Reply with quote
Tak? they can do better then Tak...Iggy? jesus, this won't go over well with the fans. How about TK? the famous takashi brothers are now TK and RK the racer people! Umm my little brother watches digimon every morning. and i sat down and watched an episode with him the other day, and guess what? they kept the japanese names in. (i hear they didn't in the first few seasons, but do now) Not that i care about dubs, but i just don't wanna hear people talking about iggy and tak...
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bakachild



Joined: 14 Jul 2002
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:01 am Reply with quote
oh and i totally agree with danbeck, get the unedited version from mangaproject, they do a pretty good job with it. and technically if Tokyo Pop doesn't wanna do the unedited version their is nothing wrong with mangaproject doing it.

I have lost ALL respect for tokyo pop...
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cookie
Old Regular


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
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Location: Do not contact me for support.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:02 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:

But if you're going to whine about every minor change, then anime/manga will never succeed here. (Though I have a feeling that's the goal of most otaku.)


What's the goal? Whining? or making anime/manga succeed? ;)
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cookie
Old Regular


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:16 am Reply with quote
bakachild wrote:

oh and i totally agree with danbeck, get the unedited version from mangaproject, they do a pretty good job with it. and technically if Tokyo Pop doesn't wanna do the unedited version their is nothing wrong with mangaproject doing it.

I have lost ALL respect for tokyo pop...


*sigh*

No. If you're going to download Initial D from mangaproject, then you probably never had respect for TP or its products to begin with. And, I'd go so far as to wager you probably weren't going to buy Initial D from TP anyway.

And, if you lost all respect for Tokyopop because they shortened a few names, then you probably didn't have much respect, even if you DID have respect.

Regardless of *what* Tokyopop puts out, they have the North American distribution license to the Initial D manga. Thus, for anyone to distribute it without TP's consent is a violation of their rights (which they paid for!). Since Mangaproject never paid any of the Japanese companies for the rights, Mangaproject _has no rights_ in this matter. Therefore, regardless of how you justify it, it _is_ wrong.

If they cut the sex scenes out, then they're cut. That doesn't mean that MP suddenly *got* the rights to those scenes, and thus should be allowed to distribute them. It wouldn't matter if they cut off the top half of each frame -- it's still THEIR license, and they can do whatever they want, as long as it isn't a violation of their contract.. and we don't know what that contract entails.

Since I think I've established downloading Initial D's manga as piracy, then I also think I should mention this...

Read our rules. No promoting piracy: ("advertizing bootleg material is *ABSOLUTELY* not allowed")
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LK



Joined: 14 Jul 2002
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 7:14 am Reply with quote
>What's the goal? Whining? or making anime/manga succeed? ;)
Can't we do both? =P

As for Initial D, I was hoping for as close to the R2s as possible.

Dub vs sub, edited vs perfect, hentai vs yaoi, shoujo romance vs shonen mecha ~ no wonder the anime scenes seem so splintered at times. I guess we will just agree to disargee.

Until the day I can afford and understand R2 anime *sigh*
Any progress on the Star Trek universal translator? ^^
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AkiraKaneda



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 2:42 pm Reply with quote
This is so hilarious to me as a discussion topic. How many people complaining about this lived through the 1985-1994 period as anime fans? What about when fandom was starting to get big due to Robotech, but absolutely nothing was available? When Viz left series with just 10 issues, or when they cut Area 88 in the middle of a huge cliffhanger? Or all that was available was crappy Streamline dubs where they actually changed the dialogue on a regular basis? And we're talking about shortening names for readability?

My point is, if you can't be happy unless your character names are spelled exactly the same, your pages are unflipped, your panels aligned exactly as they were in the Japanese version, then go buy the Japanese version! It's not difficult any more...

I don't want to sound like an "old fart" who talks about the good (or bad) ol' days, but folks, please, let's get real. This is not the end of the world. It's not even the end of the day. There is so much anime available out there now that you wouldn't have been able to even import 10 years ago. Be happy and realize that this is not the be all end all of existence. (Well, if it is, I think we're in deep trouble.)
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10127
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:01 pm Reply with quote
AkiraKaneda wrote:

This is so hilarious to me as a discussion topic. How many people complaining about this lived through the 1985-1994 period as anime fans?


While the issue is much less important, your comments are similar to a 70 year old black man saying "What, the kid got punched and smashed against a car? Big deal, in my day we had to worry about the KKK dragging us out to a field and killing us. Black people today make such a big deal out of noghing"

My point is, just because things were worse before doesn't mean people have to put up with lesser evils today.

Personally I'm not nearly as pissed off as most people are about the whole Initial D thing. I should have probably mentionned in my editorial that I will continue to buy the series even if it is edited. I'm against them doing it, but as you said, it's nothing like 10-15 years ago (wow, have I really been an Anime fan for that long?), and Tak, KT ans so-on are minor evils I could live with. But... "100% Authentic Manga" on the printed on that release? That's rather absurd... ratehr than releasing 1 half edited, half authentic and half-assed version, TPOP should release 1 flopped, edited version fo the mainstream market, without the 100% logo on it, and one totally unedited version for the fanbase.

As I said, it might not be a profitable decision, I'm sure thaat no matter what they won't lose money on Initial D, but they would probably make more off the property if they released only one version. But in the long run, the damage to their image in the fan community would probably cost them more money than the dual release would...
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AkiraKaneda



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:55 pm Reply with quote
Just the fact that you would even consider putting the concept of racism and anime in the same light would concern me. One is important, one is not...did I say that? Smile As much as I love anime, and work for the community, it's not important in the same way. Oh man, just the comparison makes me heave.

Anyway, I do understand the 100% concept - the false advertising, I can understand. But to not support a great series (I'm assuming, having not seen it yet) because of name changes is like not driving a car in protest of a 5 cent gas hike. Although I'd support anyone who wants to offer their opinions--I've signed petitions to get sub tracks on Princess Mononoke, etc--changing a name by a few letters just doesn't count.

Nevertheless, I respect your opinion.

Jason Huff
www.theanimereview.com
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Second Impact



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:27 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:

The bad news is I disagree with the editorial. The good news is I respect you mentioning it in a separate section, and not with the actual press release, unlike a certain guy whose last name is a synonym for a drink.


Well, let's get past the fact that 'beverage' and not 'Beveridge' is a synonym for a drink, and then we'll talk. As danbeck said, this is a new century. I don't think it is unreasonable to release manga with original names now. We have Japanese people and people of Japanese ancestry living in America; should we ask them to change their names? And if we can deal with real life people having Japanese names in America, why can't we stand having manga characters with Japanes names?
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Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4366
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 1:03 am Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:

While the issue is much less important, your comments are similar to a 70 year old black man saying "What, the kid got punched and smashed against a car? Big deal, in my day we had to worry about the KKK dragging us out to a field and killing us. Black people today make such a big deal out of noghing"

My point is, just because things were worse before doesn't mean people have to put up with lesser evils today.


Two things about that video... 1) One of the cops in the video is black (and some people say that one of the other two cops is Hispanic, though I can't tell), so while what we see is very brutal, I don't think the brutality of the cops has too much to do with racism. 2) They only ever show the most "incriminating" (against the cops) couple of seconds from the video on most newscasts. In the case of the Rodney King video, all you saw on most newscasts was the 3 second portion with the clubs; if you saw the whole thing, you'll see King charging towards the cops to attack them.

Not that this has anything to do whatsoever with TokyoPop, but it's just some things to keep in mind when formulating an opinion. (I don't personally have an opinion myself on this video quite yet, but I think it's good to be a little skeptical when it comes to what you see on the portions of the videotape played on newscasts vs. what actually happened.)
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist


Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 861
Location: Philippe for America! He is five.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 1:42 am Reply with quote
I, too, cannot seem to get myself worked up over any of this.

Partly because some friends of mine showed me about 1 or 2 episodes of Initial D about two years ago and I thought the show was pretty dull. I can't imagine the manga making more of an impact on me.

But, I will admit that there was an admirably goofy quality to it: the various characters shouting "OOOOHHHHH!!!" as the rediculously BADASS AND MACHO guys spin their cars around mountainsides and drag strips. In fact, I'd wager that the experience of seeing a kid named Iggy go "OOOOOHHHHH!!!" as some dude turns the corner of the 7-11 would no doubt increase my appreciation of the show tenfold.

...And, wow, I should be prohibited from posting on these things so late at night. But anyway, I don't think Initial D is high art, Tokyopop obviously feels this way since they're trying to get the show on TV and in the public eye, hence the name changes and omission of sex to make the title more appealing to licensors.

Oh, and to the guy who thinks that "one Suncoast guy" outnumbers TEH REST OF US PERSECUTED FANBOYS: I used to work at a Suncoast, and they DO represent the majority of anime buyers. So THERE.

EDIT-----
One more thing: To the guy who said "Well I was going to buy this but now I won't because I know it's EDITED!!!" Um... who knows? Maybe you would've enjoyed the title despite it's edited content? Maybe if you gave the title a chance BEFORE jumping on the anti-Tokyopop bandwagon?

Sorry. Just something that bothers me. "I haven't seen that show, but now that I know THEY TOOK OUT, LIKE, 5 SECONDS AND SOME BACKGROUND CHARACTER IS NAMED TERRY INSTEAD OF AOSUKE, I won't even bother with it!"
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