Forum - View topicMost Improved Character Tournament: Post-Mortem
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Oops, don't know where I mixed up a vote. Probably wishful thinking on my part. Will correct that in the tally. And my minigame will take a hit, though I didn't have him making it further than the next round, I think, so again it won't be too bad. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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I don't often agree with DTM but I do here. And this touches on something I've already mentioned to one user regarding votes. The purpose of the tournaments is for us to have fun and determine the BEST SUITED CANDIDATE for each match up. It should NOT MATTER AT ALL how much or how little a candidate wins by. Pity votes are to me against the entire spirit of the game. We're supposed to be voting for the best candidate in each round and each matchup. If he/she wins by a landslide then so be it. If it's tight then that's great. But voting for someone simply out of pity when you know or feel the other candidate is the better one to me is against the spirit of the tournament. It's not like anyone can be forced to pick someone but I STRONGLY URGE ALL PARTICIPANTS to vote for who you feel is actually the best pick. Regardless of how many have voted for or against them already. Otherwise it really kind of deters for the whole purpose of these tournaments. Would have voted before now but between work issues and my father being in the hospital my time is limited. Only going to give explanations for a few this time instead of most. Sorry. Group D-1 Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self Group D-2 Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies Reason: As mentioned this is not simply the Rei from the original tv series but the rebuild movies. Personally I think candidates should be considered on the whole across all their tv/OVA/movie incarnations and not just 1, but even given that given the WHOLE of Evnagelion and Rei as a character she is the stronger candidate in totality. Group D-3 Renji Abari, Bleach Reason: Renji is one of the top 3 characters in Bleach in terms of character progression IMHO. if this was an award for best supporting actor at the OScars he'd be a clear choice from Bleach. For a side character he grows and progresses more like a minor main character. He is far from perfect but his character progression EASILY surpasses that of dear Porco Rosso. Group D-4 Vegeta, Dragonball Z/Kai Reason: Vegeta is THE EPITOME of character progression. Even if you don't include GT and stick with Z/Kai his progression as a character honestly to me is the best OF ANY character in DBZ. Goku progresses the most as a fighter but as an ALL AROUND CHARACTER Vegeta progresses the most from DBZ. He goes frm being nothing more than a pompous and arrogant villain bent on destruction and power to in the end a devoted father, husband, and anti-hero. He learns to trust and love his family and to accept who he is. He even eventually lets go of his hate towards Goku and learns to respect and admire him basically. Forget pity votes or sympathy votes for Noriko, Vegeta DESERVES TO WIN this round hands down. I love Gunbuster myself honestly but in this contest Vegeta simply is the pinnacle of character progression and evolution. Given that he deserves to move on almost more than any other so far given the match ups. If he does not at least move on to round 2 that will be a serious injustice. Group D-5 Mima Kirgoe, Perfect Blue Group D-6 Mytho, Princess Tutu Reason: I think this is close but I have to say I think Mytho has a slight advantage. Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Group D-8 Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Okay, I am convinced. I'm changing my vote for D-4 to Vegeta (whom I actually thought I had voted for initially, only to look back and see that I was wrong).
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13227 |
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Just to be clear, my vote for Noriko is far from being a 'pity' vote. Noriko and Vegeta are kind of total opposites. Noriko starts over very low and builds herself up, while Vegeta starts up too high and has to reign himself in. I just find it more noteworthy when a weakling grows a spine rather than when some one with a big ego learns to chill out.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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So would Noriko not advancing. And therein lies the conflict, doesn't it? Anyway, with that change D-4 is is really close. Late votes will definitely decide that one. Unless more late votes come in than normal, the outcomes of the other matches are probably set except for final win margins. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Thanks, that will be fixed in future rounds. Must have missed those when cleaning out the spreadsheet from previous games.
Quite a few. I suspect people were expecting Princess Tutu's enthusiastic following to support the show over a less well known series. Well, like Group C, I'm mostly unfamiliar with these entrants and relying on write-ups and other posters. Group D-1 Prince Siddhartha, Buddha: The Great Departure vs. Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self Voting for: Yuu Gotou Seen Noein, so I know Yuu is a solid choice, and the write-up doesn't doesn't convince me to vote otherwise. While I'm not familiar with the anime version of Siddhartha's story, I've heard bits of the account elsewhere, and I don't recall much in the way of negative traits or hesitance. Group D-2 Yuuko Kanoe, Dusk Maiden of Amnesia vs. Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies Voting for: Rei Ayanami Can I vote for neither? Not familiar with the rebuild movies, and have no real interest in Dusk Maiden, but neither sound compelling. Coin toss. Group D-3 Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso vs. Renji Abari, Bleach Voting for: Porco Rosso Renji shows more improvement than Byakuya did, but he plateaus at pretty much the same time as everything else in the series, and like most characters in the series, seems to have his depth forgotten after the Soul Society arc finishes. Porco's journey leading to the rediscovery of his self worth plays better. Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster vs. Vegeta, Dragonball Z/Kai Voting for: Vegeta Haven't seen either series, and it sounds like either would be a fine choice to move on, there's been not nearly as much in way of vocalized support for Noriko. Group D-5 Mima Kirgoe, Perfect Blue vs. Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms Voting for: Suzu Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo vs. Mytho, Princess Tutu Voting for: Momo Mytho's inclusion in this tournament relies almost exclusively on the aspect of growth from having zero personality (and will). Part of the problem lies in that this has nothing to do with his own agency, but that of the other major characters, and that until very close to the end, this tends to make him a worse person. Excellent storytelling device, less potent for this tournament. Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 vs. Nanami Kiryuu, Revolutionary Girl Utena Voting for: Nanami Liked her write-up better. Group D-8 Naota Nandaba, FLCL vs. Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish Voting for: Tsukimi I feel like I might pick Naota over some of my other picks this round, but ultimately he's kind of a normal teenager taking a positive step towards adulthood. Tsukimi's circumstances allow for more growth. |
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getchman
 Space CowboyPosts: 9120 Location: Bedford, NH |
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Im getting lazier with each passing round
Group D-1 Prince Siddhartha, Buddha: The Great Detective vs. Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self I haven't seen either, but I don't know who could possibly improve more in character than the Buddha. Thus, my vote goes to Prince Siddhartha Group D-2 Yuuko Kanoe, Dusk Maiden of Amnesia vs. Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies Hmm, this is tough since they both show significant improvement. However, I think gaining the courage to finally face the gruesome truth of your death shows more improvement so Yuuko gets my vote Group D-3 Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso vs. Renji Abari, Bleach Renji Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster vs. Vegeta, Dragonball Z/Kai No contest, Vegeta gets my vote. This match up has made me interested in trying out Gunbuster. Group D-5 Mima Kirgoe, Perfect Blue vs. Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms Haven't seen either show, so going by the character write ups, I'm choosing Suzu Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo vs. Mytho, Princess Tutu same situation as D-5. I'm choosing Momo Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 vs. Nanami Kiryuu, Revolutionary Girl Utena Same situation here as well. My vote goes to Saji Group D-8 Naota Nandaba, FLCL vs. Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish[/quote] I haven't seen FLCL, but I think Tsukimi improves more . She gets my vote |
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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Group D-1
Prince Siddhartha, Buddha: The Great Departure vs. Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self Voting for: Yuu Gotou Honestly, don't know either one, but the general forum consensus seems to be that Yuu is the better choice. Group D-2 Yuuko Kanoe, Dusk Maiden of Amnesia vs. Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies Voting for: Yuuko Kanoe A vote against Rei since I was left impressed with her improvements. She does change, but just most of her flaws are still as glaring even after her so called improvements. Group D-3 Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso vs. Renji Abari, Bleach Voting for: Renji Abari Renji shows enough improvement for me to edge out Porco Rosso mainly due to the limited focus. I do not believe either choice is very strong. Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster vs. Vegeta, Dragonball Z/Kai Voting for: Vegeta Again, it appears from the arguments that Vegeta is the better choice here. Group D-5 Mima Kirgoe, Perfect Blue vs. Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms Voting for: Suzu Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo vs. Mytho, Princess Tutu Voting for: Mytho I do have problem with Mytho's type of character that reeks more of a device than actual character growth, but the improvement here is clear. I also haven't been swayed by the arguments made in support of Momo. Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 vs. Nanami Kiryuu, Revolutionary Girl Utena Voting for: Nanami Indifferent to Saji, and while I don't know Nanami her write-up seems very impressive. Group D-8 Naota Nandaba, FLCL vs. Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish Voting for: Tsukimi Tsukumi's story is centered around her improvement while Naota seems to be making baby steps towards adulthood. Like Dorcas_Aurelia had said the circumstances present in Princess Jellyfish are far better at facilitating her improving her character. Lastly, the topping of the cake is that Tsukumi's improvement is far more credible and believable especially when compared to who she is facing. |
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The Naked Beast
 Posts: 1028 Location: A Blue Planet |
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Group D-1
Prince Siddhartha, Buddha: The Great Detective vs. Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self My vote goes to: Prince Siddhartha. Group D-2 Yuuko Kanoe, Dusk Maiden of Amnesia vs. Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies My vote goes to: Rei Ayanami. Group D-3 Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso vs. Renji Abari, Bleach My vote goes to: Renji Abari. Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster vs. Vegeta, Dragonball Z/Kai Vegeta is quite the character in Dragon Ball Z. He starts off as a prideful bad guy then converts to a prideful good guy. Coming from a Saiyan lineage does get to his head. However, he does learn to be a team player and loosens up later in the series. My vote goes to: Vegeta. Group D-5 Mima Kirgoe, Perfect Blue vs. Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms My vote goes to: Mima Kirgoe. Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo vs. Mytho, Princess Tutu My vote goes to: Momo Miyaura. Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 vs. Nanami Kiryuu, Revolutionary Girl Utena All Saji did in Season One was whine, whine, and whine. spoiler[My sister's dead because of Celestial Being! My girlfriend's was caught in the crossfire because of Celestial Being!] Okay, he did have a point there but whining about it does not make it any better. Luckily, in Season Two, he takes action to make things better. Instead of being a apathetic bystander just going about their own way, he reluctantly joins Celestial Being, the cause of his suffering. He learns that the world is not what it is and fights alongside the Celestial Being and the Gundam Meisters. My vote goes to: Saji Crossroad. Group D-8 Naota Nandaba, FLCL vs. Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish My vote goes to: Naota Nandaba. |
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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* A wild Farichada has appeared.*
Farichada uses last minute vote and edit attack. Group D-1 Prince Siddhartha, Buddha: The Great Detective vs. Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self My vote goes to: Prince Siddhartha. Group D-2 Yuuko Kanoe, Dusk Maiden of Amnesia vs. Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies My vote goes to: Rei Ayanami. Group D-3 Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso vs. Renji Abari, Bleach My vote goes to: Renji Abari Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster vs. Vegeta, Dragonball Z/Kai Sure, he is still prideful man, but going from bad to good has to score some points especially when the impact is quite scandalous and large. I also like how he learns to be less of a lone ranger and actually is able to work well with a team. My vote goes to: Vegeta. Group D-5 Mima Kirgoe, Perfect Blue vs. Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms My vote goes to: Suzu. Goes from a despicable stain to bearable, but the strength of this improvement is in the details and depth. One of the weaker Twelve Kingdoms characters, but as in the 12K typical standard there's a compelling case made for her stark improvement, Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo vs. Mytho, Princess Tutu My vote goes to: Momo. More a vote against the whole Mytho type of character. Hurts more that he had little to do with his "improvement". Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 vs. Nanami Kiryuu, Revolutionary Girl Utena Saji grates on me to no end. My vote goes to: Namami. Group D-8 Naota Nandaba, FLCL vs. Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish My vote goes to: Tsukumi Like OMG, she is the poster child of self-improvement. And if it the cards weren't stacked in her favor enough, one of the central themes of the show was self-improvement. Sure, she still has a way to go, and there are lapses along the way, but that just makes it more realistic and meaningful. I seriously hope she makes it far even though popularity ain't on her side. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 1 is now closed.
Rounding out the prelims, with 25 votes in: D-1: Yuu Gotou goes multidimensional in trouncing Prince Siddhartha, 20-5. D-3: Yuuko Kanoe holds out to the bitter end (only this time it turned out better!) against Rei Ayanami, 14-11. D-3: Porco Rosso soars by Renji Abari, 16-9. D-4: Vegeta makes a dramatic comeback to oust Noriko, 15-10. D-5: Suzu refuses to answer Mima's question and just butt-kicks her, 22-3. D-6: Momo sics her goblin friends on Mytho, 18-7. D-7: Saji Crossroad goes Gundam on Nanami Kiryuu, 17-8. D-8: Tsukimi Kurahita proved too much woman for Naota, 21-4. The story of the round is, of course, Vegeta, who went from being down by multiple votes early on Monday to a victory that wasn't as easy as it looks, partly due to vote changes and partly due to and end run of six consecutive votes. While I won't dispute that Vegeta was just as worthy to win as Noriko, I definitely don't feel the vote there should have ended up as imbalanced as it did (that one deserved to be 13-12 for whomever won) and suspect that some may have second thoughts about their votes if they ever get around to seeing Gunbuster. Guess I should have gone out and tracked down some clips for her, too, or put more effort late into refuting the ones that dtm42 linked to, huh? Be assured that I won't be so passive if I decide to vote against him in the future. (Not a given, mind you, although his competition next round isn't any less formidable.) As for other match-ups, Yuuko pretty much always had a lead on Rei but could never outdistance her in D-2, but all of the rest were blow-outs for most of the round. D-3 tightened up considerably in the late going but Renji just came from too far down. That leaves Bleach joining Vandread in being 0-2 for the tournament. Also, the first round did a pretty solid job of holding its vote totals throughout. The first stage of Round 2 will be up soon. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 2 Group A is now closed.
Results can be found here. And now the seeds start filtering in. How will the winners from last round fare against much tougher competition? Shall we find out? Group A-9 Fakir, Princess Tutu vs. Ayaka Steiger, Kurau Pahntom Memory Group A-10 Piccolo Jr.,, Dragonball franchise vs. Chi, Chobits Group A-11 Sawako Kuronuma, Kimi ni Todoke – From Me to You vs. Eureka, Eureka 7 Group A-12 Gaara, Naruto franchise vs. Eva Heinemann, Monster Group A-13 Haruka Suzumiya, Rumbling Hearts vs. Yukino Miyazawa, His and Her Circumstances Group A-14 Taichi Mashima, Chihiyafuru vs. Hiei, Yu Yu Hakusho Group A-15 Jean Valjean, Les Miserables Shoujo Cosette vs. Daikichi Kawachi, Bunny Drop Group A-16 Clare, Claymore vs. Satou Tatsuhiro, Welcome to the NHK Last edited by Key on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:18 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13227 |
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And thus opens the door for the cop out justification of "S/He must be seeded for a reason."
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Yeah. . . no. "Because he/she's a seed" will not be accepted as a worthwhile justification.
Also, forgot to mention guys n' gals: effective this round, two matches must be justified rather than just one. It's getting late my way, so I'll be posting my votes later in the day. And I definitely won't be supporting all of the seeds. |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7357 |
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Is it just me, or did the link for Gaara lead to Eva, and the link for Eva lead to Gauche?
[EDIT: Corrected. Boy, I really wasn't paying attention when I double-checked that last night. - Key] Anyway, guess I'll do my votes now. Mostly easy for me, anything without reason is mostly "the guide" A-9: Fakir-Easy choice for me. First off, he makes a radical transition from domineering jerk that I totally thought I wouldn't be able to get behind ever at the start of the series to a hero fighting destiny and my favorite character. I don't want to spoil too much for the 3 people in the forum who have yet to see Princess Tutu (get on it, you three), but I also think that his transition is a large part of the heart of the show as I think he's the one who changes the most during the show's course. He goes from trying to do what he thinks is right no matter how much of a jerk he has to be to doing what is actually right when it's the harder thing to do all while realizing his past errors, he definitely goes through a lot and he deserves to be recognized. And omg I am so much FakirXDuck! On the other hand, I did see Kurau, and barely remember anything about the series, let alone Ayeka Steiger. A-10: Piccolo A-11: Eureka A-12: Gaara-It could be that I thought Eva really only improved in that one scene or I still only recall her as a beyotch, but I find it hard to vote for her. A-13: Yukino Miyazawa-Going based on the manga here, though, unlike her beau, it seems like all her development was put in the anime. A-14: Hiei-He rather reminds me a lot of Vegeta, goes from season 1 enemy to true companion by the end of the series. A-15: Jean Valjean A-16: Satou Tatsuhiro Last edited by zawa113 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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