Forum - View topicSo whats the problem with manga made in America?
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Jackiechane100
Posts: 5 |
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I just figure that if you love manga whats it matter where it comes from? I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything, but I would like to see from the quote on quote "Haters" perspective. I figure that this may be an enjoyable discussion for both parties.
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Matarael
 Posts: 51 |
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Silly rabbit. You can't make manga in America.
America has made comic books though. What do you mean by 'manga', do you have any examples? |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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It's not manga? That's probably the biggest thing.
For me, generally, it just has an art style that tries to follow a typical anime or manga style. Just because you have a particular art style doesn't make it manga. The story format, and use of frames, sequencing, screen tones, etc, all of it does it for me. Very few western artist have nailed it down close in my opinion, though the artist for Soulless I think does a lovely job and I happily buy that title. Then there's the fact that most "manga" artist here are mainly self published, or very near it, where as any of the manga that gets here has typically gone through what's essentially a creative team and editor to make the story as... mass appealing as possible. Sometimes this can make a manga horribly formulaic, but I can see where years of experience in helping to produce best selling comics and guiding a story can help improve the comic. |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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I'm not a fan of it because it seems so...cheap.
If you're a good artist, just make a normal western comic. There's plenty of recognition to be gained there. |
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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I don't hate it, though I do not call it 'manga' unless it's made in Japan. I refer to it as manga-inspired and manga-influenced, and sometimes OEL without the manga moniker. As a loanword, manga acts to distinguish Japanese comics from the rest, just as manhua is to China/Hong Kong/Taiwan and manhwa is to Korea.
My biggest problem is that it assumes there is a singular manga style. Certainly there are common attributes, but authors will use them differently. I've also seen manga that don't look like most manga at all. OEL mimics common tendencies, but aping the style causes the work to suffer. Granted, most published OEL had been released by Tokyopop and the quality just wasn't there. (Or sales were poor and the series was cut before a complete release.) Then there was Demented Dragon...They never took off to begin with as far as I know and are dead. But it's possible to get some of their stuff online. I think quality may been a problem with them, too. Yen Press mostly releases YA adaptations. A chunk of their stuff is James Patterson or romantic, which I don't read anyway. I did read the original Miss Peregrine novel, but don't feel the need to read it in comic form because real photography was so integral to the book. I'm also aware that Seven Seas has some stuff, but haven't purchased anything. Additionally...I dislike that people are trying so hard to be Japan. There is nothing wrong with a comic being American or Canadian or what have you. I love comics. I have a collection of international and domestic comics. Yes, even some manga-influenced American works. There is no hate; just a wish for greater quality and variation. |
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Jackiechane100
Posts: 5 |
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Yeah I see where you all are coming from. Sadly, the manga I have read that's by american's is usually based on a book or missing good character personalitys that make you connect with them. Though, I really don't have much to go by. This sucks though because I have a lot of good ideas that I want to be in stores someday. But if things stay the way they are I'm gonna end up living off my parents.
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Tamaria
 Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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Aw, don't be like that! Just because someone else failed doesn't mean you are destined to fail as well. Learn from their mistakes to improve your own work. I know several comic artists who were heavily influenced by manga when they started drawing. It inspired them to draw and publish their own comics. Some of them went on to be professional artists with a steady amount of work. The reason they succeeded is that they went beyond imitation. Over the course of many years they studied many different artstyles and developed their own. As an author you need to put a bit of yourself in your work to give it personality and make it something unique, and that bit can't be "I want to be Japanese, I'll be cool if I make something that looks Japanese, please think this is Japanese!" Look at Dramacon. It may look like it has something very Japanese at the heart of it, but that isn't true. It's about something much closer to the author's home: animefandom in North America. As for whether it's manga or not, I wouldn't call it that for the same reasons as RestlessOne. Words are most useful when they mean something. Since it's pretty much impossible to define manga as a style without excluding many Japanese comics, I think it's best to have the word simply mean 'comics from Japan'. |
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Jackiechane100
Posts: 5 |
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*light shining* THANK YOU! the candle in my heart has been lit.
Though.... I was talking about how my books wouldn't sell very well because people would focus on the fact that I'm not Japanese. ... But still YOU HAVE INSPIRED ME! THANK YOU! 
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4830 |
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I'm from America and I draw manga. Yes, I call it manga. And I feel I can call it "manga" because the original script is in Japanese.
It's not because I want to be Japanese or anything-I'm happy with who I am, really. But I really prefer the structure of the language, especially with character dialogue. It flows smoother....well, it's kind of hard to explain. I would be lying if I said it didn't make me giddy when people asked me if I was Japanese after looking at my sample work online though. Hehhe I fooooled them. *devious grin* >:] In case you're curious, here is one page from my Full Moon doujin: http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Chiibi_album/media/09_zpsb05ac6f1.jpg.html Don't call that manga if you dare. 
(This is all just a hobby though. I'm not planning to make a career of it....because it would be impossible...but I am hoping to get a couple hard copies out so I can sell them at cons :>) The reason I think a lot of "imitation manga" fails is because people don't do their research. If you want to draw a story that takes place in Japan, you have to make it look like Japan. You can't mix American settings with Japanese elements. It just doesn't work...and makes you look like a n00b. The statement "people shouldn't imitate something they're not" is BS....because Osamu Tezuka got his start by imitating Disney's style-in fact, he and Disney were tight buddies. And how many anime take place in America? There's nothing wrong with having it vice-versa but you have to do a good job and you can't jump in without knowing anything about the atmosphere. |
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Tamaria
Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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If your comic is good and you (or your publisher) don't manga as a buzzword to sell it, I don't think you'll need to worry about that. |
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EireformContinent
 Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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No, no, no, no, no. Tezuka started from learning how to draw. Then started to modify his style to the point when in Black Jack he mixed cartoon characters and accurate anatomical picture in one cell. From my art classes I see that's a problem for many young artists- they don't bother with basic training (perspective, proportions, anatomy) and skip directly to imitating. It's likeplaying on instrument- knowing the technique gives artistic freedom to develop own signature style. For OP- don't bother with manga thing. If you have an idea, start drawing or write the script and find someone to do the rest. When you have something to present, polish it to perfection and go to the publishers. Or start a website. Or do a step to make your dreams come true. I've seen many good ideas being wasted by authors who spend their time by worrying about marketing issues, instead of starting doing things. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4830 |
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I didn't say he "skipped the basics of drawing". :p I just meant that people shouldn't say that Americans shouldn't imitate manga-style if they're not going to criticize Japanese imitating American style. It's hypocrisy, is all I'm pointing out. |
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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It's fine to be influenced by manga - just stop trying to be something you're not. The best comics, manga or western, have art styles uniquely their own. If you try to make everything look like a particular style, there's going to be nothing natural feeling about your comic, and it won't stand out. Tezuka was influenced by western cartoons, but he didn't try and make everything look like an animator from Popeye drew it. And as to your doujin page... I still wouldn't call it manga. I'd instead call it too much digital/photoshop/manga studio, but that's my personal preference. The anatomy is on par though with some self created doujinshi I've seen. Work on tweaking your line work/inking and anatomy, and your backgrounds/objects and you'll improve the look immensely. A big problem I see with most western artist who try to emulate the manga style is overkill in screen tones, especially digital ones. The end result just hurts my eyes a lot, and throw at them a screen tone guide or something. I think there was a book in the How to Draw Manga guide that covered it pretty well. |
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Jackiechane100
Posts: 5 |
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thenix
 Posts: 265 |
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I've given a few series a try but the few I have tried I don't like. Usually the story has american cliche's which I hate slightly worse than Japanese cliche's. Usually the art isn't as good. Generally it seems to have a mimicing feel to it rather than natural and I know that's an opinion but it's what I got. I still got a few more to try though.
Acutally I read volume 1 of Aoi House and it was rather good. I honestly didn't know it was american till after I read it |
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