Forum - View topicKill la Kill (TV).
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Sajuukkhar
|
|
|||||
They already told it in episode 20 when Uzu says "the enemy awaits at Honnouji!" Also, there is this. http://i.imgur.com/iMe9Fdu.jpg |
||||||
getchman
 He started itPosts: 9196 Location: New Hampshire |
|
|||||
yes, I know, which is why I made my post |
||||||
|
||||||
DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15898 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
|
|||||
|
I did not even consider that the first ED was insight into what she wanted and that the fake memories played on that.
|
||||||
|
||||||
ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
|
|||||
|
I don't think the story to this point has really been touching on Ryuko wanting to live a normal school girl life much at all, if any. There may have been a few comments here and there, but the story has thus far been driven almost exclusively by her desire to avenge her father. I think we are all well aware of this, notwithstanding some happy dreamy stuff in an ED.
Additionally, in regard to Blood-'s comment about needing time to "emotionally absorb things", that's not an accurate description of my criticism of the show. Also, it is not about a personal preference. It is about proper foreshadowing and creating a narrative structure upon which future events are predicated. This show has been largely weak in those areas. Instead, things just get suddenly revealed and/or shoved down the audience's throat at hectic pace in order to keep things moving as fast as possible. Some of it works, and some of it is lacking. |
||||||
|
||||||
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 25653 |
|
|||||
|
Nope, you are making the classic mistake of imposing your own personal preference on how things should be done on a show and then acting as if the show has made an mistake in not conforming to that personal preference. Even your contention that things need to be "properly" foreshadowed is just your own personal (and, frankly, quite banal) view of things. I see nothing wrong with a revelation coming out of the clear blue sky as long as it doesn't violate any internal logic elements. That's the beauty of shocking revelations: they are unexpected, not foreshadowed. As I have said before, this show is beaming on a wavelength that you are personally not tuned into. That is not the show's fault. No show can be all things to all people.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
meiam
Posts: 3691 |
|
|||||
|
But the show does break internal logic many time, specifically about Ryoko father somehow going back to see Satsuki.
Also I doubt many people like when element are just randomly reveal with absolutely no reason for them or logic. Like some new character could show up out of nowhere in this show, be a millions time stronger than everyone and just kill the bad guys, and then the show would end, technically doesn't break the internal logic, but that would really suck. What if they just reveal that oh yeah the teacher is actually Ryoko real dad and he didn't tell her because he didn't feel like it. There's a near infinite number of event that could happens without breaking internal logic (giant mole people could come out of the ground and kill everyone), the vast vast majority of those suck, that's why you need proper foreshadowing (here foreshadowing mean referencing future event without outright exposing them). |
||||||
|
||||||
|
DuskyPredator
Posts: 15898 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
|
|||||
|
If we look at Satsuki supposedly meeting her father in the memory who tells her about the dress, it might be under the same effect that had Ryuko misremembering details of who killed her father. That is that if Ryuko's memories from months or weeks earlier could fault, the what about when they were just 5?
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 25653 |
|
|||||
Sigh. Really, dude? You honestly think that when I wrote that a shocking revelation doesn't need to be "properly" foreshadowed as long as it didn't violate any internal logic rules that somehow that meant it's okay to break OTHER rules of bad writing, like the examples you provided? Oi vey. 
|
||||||
|
||||||
WhiteHairGirls
 Posts: 4713 Location: New York City |
|
|||||
|
In other news you guys ready for Mako's death in 4 days?
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
|
|||||
You were opening yourself up to this by just making a broad generalization about how "anything goes" is okay as long as it doesn't violate a show's internal logic. You are being hypocritical by, on the one hand, criticizing my points on the show's questionable writing choices by saying that my opinions were invalid because they are my opinions, but then on the other hand, you respond to meiam's criticism of yourself by stating that you would never break "rules of bad writing." So what are these rules of bad writing? Are they invalid as well because they are your opinions (or anyone else's?) on how a show should be written? You claim that my opinions are subjective and flawed, and then claim that your opinions are somehow upheld under some objective thought process. In reality, both of our opinions are subjective. The issue is that there are certain subjective opinions that are agreed upon by MANY people in criticizing shows like this. One of those opinions is that proper foreshadowing is a very good thing, for the reasons that meiam articulated quite well in his reply. If you want to take the position that "anything goes, as long as it doesn't break internal logic," then you can take that position but I don't think it will be supported by the majority. |
||||||
|
||||||
ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||
|
Gotta agree with ChibiKangaroo. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too here Blood. At the very least, you're going to need to elaborate on why the "other rules" of writing aren't okay to break but the idea that a twist must be properly foreshadowed is just a personal view. What makes one personal and the other not?
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 25653 |
|
|||||
|
First things first:
You are making the same illogical assumption that meiam made. Where did I suggest that "anything goes" as long as it doesn't violate a show's internal logic? It's almost as if this is what you both were reading: I see nothing wrong with a revelation coming out of the clear blue sky as long as it doesn't violate any internal logic elements. Foreshadowing is a device, not a rule. When used well, it can be effective as any device used well can. But to flat out say: "All shocking revelations MUST BE properly foreshadowed first or it's bad writing" is hopelessly formulaic and pedantic. As I've said before, the whole point of a shocking revelation is that it is SURPRISING. Why must a surprise be "properly" foreshadowed to be valid? That makes no sense. What writing guide are you taking that from? Now, obviously a shocking revelation that is an ass-pull that violates principles of "the world" already set up negates itself. That was my point. My point never was, hey write cliche characters as part of a shocking revelation, it doesn't matter as long internal rules aren't violated! And as for this:
 Oh yes, let's look at an example of meiam's wonderful articulation:
Leaving aside his risible grammar, he didn't explain why "proper" foreshadowing is required for shocking revelations at all. All he did was point out obvious examples of bad writing. Such as: [EDIT: Tried to make your post a little less condescending. -TK]d |
||||||
|
||||||
|
DuskyPredator
Posts: 15898 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
|
|||||
|
I would say that there has been the needed amount of foreshadowing where it was needed. Where there have been shocking revelations they did not need it as it was meant to be shocking, and I don't think any have betrayed the rules that have been set. Although in terms of these rules is kind of why I was having trouble early in the series as I was not a fan at the time of the rules.
Overall things like parentage, Ragyou, berserk forms, alien origin, escalating power, mind over mater, brainwashing, etc. are all quite typical of this type of story. They have not broken the rules as set early in the series or by predecessors, and having a clearer understanding of what to expect and enjoying the presentation seems to be the key factor. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Animegomaniac
Posts: 4287 |
|
|||||
I think the basic problem is that the "revelation" turns a tongue in cheek stupid action comedy, which I should mention was "fun", that lasted about 16 episodes into a serious/stupid {the one thing that carried over...} alien invasion science fiction story. I see everything wrong with it, not because "it came out of the blue" but because it took everything down with it. A quick question: When Nui and Ragyo were jumping around like coiled springs in the last episode, was I the only one who wondered what the hell happened with this show? New villains, new motivations, new allies of old villains but it worked in Gurren Lagann because everything about the premise from the start was "You're not seeing the big picture" and every step outward from the first episode also involved an increase in scope and the size of the mecha. Nicely down as it's something you wouldn't notice until the plot started to speed up after the midpoint. In Kill la Kill, the main part of the series was "all a test", "misunderstandings", "poor communication" and "idiots making plans". And now as we get to the end of the series, all of that was dropped as a bad idea, the former student killer students are now our heroes and the main villains are the enemies of our former villains. That doesn't work thematically because there's no karma involved. "Aren't our Darwinistic mass murders so cute?" No? I suppose the heroes in Kill la Kill aren't all that unblemished but with that comes the comparison of what we see of humanity versus the alien invasion and with that, I feel I have to support the subjugation and consumption of the human race. It's only fair. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
DuskyPredator
Posts: 15898 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
|
|||||
Well duh it was not really them, they were communicative like devices most likely made through life fibres. It is pretty common for a villain to antagonise the heroes by appearing as holograms or some sort of illusion magic in these sort of stories, so it should be easily understood
Is it really so hard to believe that Satsuki did everything to get in her mother's favour so that she could kill her at the opertune time, believing that there would be a lot less loss through that method. But she did not anticipate exactly how resilient her mother was, she only recently learned the origin after all. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group