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REVIEW: Kill la Kill [Limited Edition] BD+DVD 2


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DangerMouse



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 4022
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:08 pm Reply with quote
FlamingFirewire wrote:
Really glad to hear the ENG dub is top notch as the show is easily one of the most enjoyable shows I've seen in such a long time.


Same. Still remember when some were talking about it being "undubbable". I've been enjoying it a lot so far on my re-watch.

So glad it's getting a dub, hopefully it'll even make it on Toonami someday after Gurren, if they can come to terms with the undetailed nudity, since it was a lot of fun.

ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
Now, Attack on Titan. That had limited animation. Laughing


Some yes, but it also had a lot of utterly gorgeous long sequences. Generally I thought the show looked great and they even addressed some of the stuff on the BDs even if they left some of the stills.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:23 pm Reply with quote
Attack on Titan is the quintessential example of economizing in animation, particularly while it was airing, since it did get fixed up on home video. I don't mean that in a bad way at all.

Basically, you have a limited amount of budget and animators working in parallel and most significantly, very little time. What are you going to do? Do you spend all your animation budget on the mundane shots, non-critical action or movement, or do you reserve it for when you really need it in the big action sequences?

Aot is an example of both limited animation with some obvious shortcuts AND fluid, dynamic, thrilling action sequences with huge camera movement. The contrast between the two actually maximizes the impact of those action sequences. The same applies to a lesser degree with Kill La Kill.
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:25 pm Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:

Now, Attack on Titan. That had limited animation. Laughing


The animation in both AoT and KLK struck me as fairly similar in the way that they chose to spread out the budget. Personally, it is the kind of animation that I adore. If you have a tiny budget, use well planned stills in moments that don't require much movement to convey the mood/story/whatever, and save that money for some stunning fight scenes. Both AoT and KLK did that over and over again. I wouldn't consider the animation in KLK to be A-quality stuff, but it was a pretty damn good example of how to use a small budget.

Also, I'm glad to see the "Making Of" extra getting some love. That was the first thing I sat down and watched, and it was fantastic. It really gave me a better understanding of what it is like to make an anime and it was also pretty cool to see Sawano and his crew making that epic soundtrack. Very Happy
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:26 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
Aot is an example of both limited animation with some obvious shortcuts AND fluid, dynamic, thrilling action sequences with huge camera movement. The contrast between the two actually maximizes the impact of those action sequences. The same applies to a lesser degree with Kill La Kill.


Hey, look at that, you beat me to it. I guess you were a little more charismatic, but I'm pretty sure we were getting at the same thing. Laughing
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fullmetalhollow



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:36 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
Attack on Titan is the quintessential example of economizing in animation, particularly while it was airing, since it did get fixed up on home video. I don't mean that in a bad way at all.

Basically, you have a limited amount of budget and animators working in parallel and most significantly, very little time. What are you going to do? Do you spend all your animation budget on the mundane shots, non-critical action or movement, or do you reserve it for when you really need it in the big action sequences?

Aot is an example of both limited animation with some obvious shortcuts AND fluid, dynamic, thrilling action sequences with huge camera movement. The contrast between the two actually maximizes the impact of those action sequences. The same applies to a lesser degree with Kill La Kill.


Yeah I agree, but I hold Kill la kill to a higher regard because in addition to this the characters were animated with a lot more personality. Both really well animated shows overall with obvious limitations (but what anime doesn't?) Both these shows stand above almost any other anime in terms of animation in recent memory, except for space dandy which is super consistent in it's high quality animation.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:04 pm Reply with quote
@relyat08
Hah! What a coincidence. BTW if you like the making-of, the second part that should be in the next volume, gets even more interesting, detailing the use of CG in Kill La Kill. Another economizing tool, but very well integrated. I don't think most people can tell difference.

@fullmetalhollow
As far as personality I think that depends on the show, whether the facial expressions or expressive poses fit. I don't expect more serious shows to have the same style. I haven't fully watched Spacey Dandy yet, but I did check out a few episodes of the first season a while back and yes, I noticed the animation quality there was consistently good. But I get the impression it was planned out and budgeted much earlier than usual, with the Toonami and global TV broadcast deals.

Coming back to regular anime, Tokyo Ghoul is another one that stands out with high quality animation, and a few in the past like Kyoukai no Kanata. Actually now that I think about it, there's rarely any show that is bad across the board. Most even with limits try to be efficient and make the most of resources where it's best utilized in the show.
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HaruhiToy



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:05 pm Reply with quote
JesuOtaku wrote:
I really don't know where the whole "Kill La Kill has poor animation" narrative came from,

tt comes from too many people who don't know shit from shinola. As my dad used to say.


Last edited by HaruhiToy on Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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configspace



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:15 pm Reply with quote
To be fair I do think the animation in Kill La Kill is still limited in frames and just average--not horrible, but not great either--in certain scenes (I don't mean the intentional shots for comedy that's like a sequence of stills) and could be improved, if given extra time and budget so that it's high quality everywhere outside of key battles. But that applies to nearly all anime.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:29 pm Reply with quote
I thought Kill la Kill was great. Glad the second volume got good reviews, since it is going to arrive this week for me.
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fullmetalhollow



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:36 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:

@fullmetalhollow
As far as personality I think that depends on the show, whether the facial expressions or expressive poses fit. I don't expect more serious shows to have the same style. I haven't fully watched Spacey Dandy yet, but I did check out a few episodes of the first season a while back and yes, I noticed the animation quality there was consistently good. But I get the impression it was planned out and budgeted much earlier than usual, with the Toonami and global TV broadcast deals.

Coming back to regular anime, Tokyo Ghoul is another one that stands out with high quality animation, and a few in the past like Kyoukai no Kanata. Actually now that I think about it, there's rarely any show that is bad across the board. Most even with limits try to be efficient and make the most of resources where it's best utilized in the show.


Regardless of the style of the show any anime can benefit from expressiveness. In the case of Aot the rely on a few stock expressions, and don't really make the best out of a given situation, the body language is usually really stiff, and so dialogue sequences that couldve been really powerful end up being far less impactful.

Tokyo ghoul and Kyoukai had pretty good animation, but it wasnt outstandingly good. Space Dandy, AoT, KlK, FMA brotherhood, the currently airing Shingeki no Bahamut, and maybe the recent Fate series stand out in terms of recent examples of outstanding animation, though I miss a lot of animes each season.
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Leland Lee



Joined: 25 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:53 pm Reply with quote
Kaioshin_Sama wrote:

Aniplex is. It's funny how many unknowing fanboys they've managed to accumulate in a little over 5 years this decade that'll just dogpile anyone that dares to suggest that maybe just maybe they have a fanboy cult with the types of licenses they like to play around with and more than likely a little bit of an understanding with certain blog sites and what not going on. Frankly sometimes I'm not entirely unconvinced that they don't also have employees going to sites and registering just to try to direct opinion in a certain direction. Frankly nothing would surprise me anymore. Some people would call it conspiracy theorizing and mock it and I say whatever, I just call it being eternally skeptical of media conglomerates.


It's not conspiracy theorizing, because I'm pretty damn certain that's exactly what's going on. Some of the users on here are outright hostile to anyone critical of AoA's distribution strategy in the same vein AoA employees have been hostile in the past. Real anime industry superstars, these guys.

Having said that, I'm on the fence about all of ANN's staff being tempted by them on some degree. Hope obviously isn't, but I still have my reservations about some other faces. And as for the blind fanboys, again, they're either company plants or have ended up selling their souls for discounts or even free shit. Cause...there's literally just no logical way anyone can be that giddy about paying so f***ing much for so damn little. At least five-star restaurants can charge five-star prices because they have five-star chefs (or hopefully they do!). Kill la Kill...well, it's divisive as you know. Wink Sword Art Online? That's like paying five-star price for a big mac with three-day old onion rings.

I wouldn't be able to do that. Like...I'm 90% certain that I wouldn't be able to sell off my dignity like that.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:31 pm Reply with quote
FlamingFirewire wrote:
Really glad to hear the ENG dub is top notch as the show is easily one of the most enjoyable shows I've seen in such a long time.


I'm pleased to see that too. I'll second Hope's statement that it would be great if this ended up on TV since I'd like to hear it, but I'm not at all in a position to buy it.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:40 pm Reply with quote
Leland Lee wrote:
And as for the blind fanboys, again, they're either company plants or have ended up selling their souls for discounts or even free shit.




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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:02 am Reply with quote
^My thoughts exactly. Laughing

Leland Lee wrote:

It's not conspiracy theorizing, because I'm pretty damn certain that's exactly what's going on. Some of the users on here are outright hostile to anyone critical of AoA's distribution strategy in the same vein AoA employees have been hostile in the past. Real anime industry superstars, these guys.

Having said that, I'm on the fence about all of ANN's staff being tempted by them on some degree. Hope obviously isn't, but I still have my reservations about some other faces. And as for the blind fanboys, again, they're either company plants or have ended up selling their souls for discounts or even free shit. Cause...there's literally just no logical way anyone can be that giddy about paying so f***ing much for so damn little. At least five-star restaurants can charge five-star prices because they have five-star chefs (or hopefully they do!). Kill la Kill...well, it's divisive as you know. Wink Sword Art Online? That's like paying five-star price for a big mac with three-day old onion rings.

I wouldn't be able to do that. Like...I'm 90% certain that I wouldn't be able to sell off my dignity like that.


Looking through most recent threads regarding Aniplex, it seems to be pretty much the opposite of what you're saying. The vast majority of people seem to hate on Aniplex pricing(not unjustly) and are sometimes very hostile, while a small few try to remind people that Aniplex is extremely successful with their current model and that owning/collecting anime is an expensive hobby and entirely a privilege. It isn't a right to have anime at a certain price point. Aniplex will do what they do as long as it's successful for them. When it stops being that way they will pack up and go back to Japan.

As far as some ANN staff being tempted by Aniplex... I don't really even know what that is supposed to mean, but if you truly feel like the most reputable Anime News site in NA is being paid off(or their staff is), you should probably stop coming here for your news and reviews.
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Crisha
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Joined: 21 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:11 am Reply with quote
Wow, this thread. LaughingLaughing It's the perfect cure after watching such a crap movie like Event Horizon.

@dtm42 - Laughing Pretty much.

---

Anyways, I share the same opinion as Hope in regards to the entire series and the animation. For me, fluidity or limited animation isn't the point. It's about how the animation is creatively applied, limited or not, to deliver dynamic scenes. Frankly, I was so engaged that I didn't even notice the limitations people are pointing out in here. The animation that was used worked for the series and didn't feel stilted or distract me away from the show; therefore, to me, it was animated well. There's a more objective approach that can be taken in regards to animation grades, but that's not the way I approach it.

Whatever. It's only a letter grade anyways. Hope's review captures the important parts.

Thanks for mentioning what went on in the extra. So, I've pretty much decided that I'm just gonna bend over and bite the bullet on the AoA limited editions. Given all other alternatives (standard editions, other region releases) that I debated on for a while, this is my final conclusion.
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