Forum - View topicClaymore (TV).
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DeadOrAlive
Posts: 11 Location: Singapore ! |
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Well, yeah, spoiler[If Clare goes totally berserk it be nice too since there be no season 2 !] |
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haruhikenpachi
 Posts: 7 |
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Is anyone else disappointed with the direction this series has taken?
One of my favorite animes is Berserk, and my favorite part of the series was during the spoiler[ Golden Years, with the team dynamic of Griffith/Gats/Casca] and then when the spoiler[ Eclipse] occurred I was a bit shocked, as most people watching that series (and not reading the manga) would agree. Currently im praying that there is no deus ex machina (spoiler[ or should I say "demon in the machine"?) ] sort of conclusion for Claymore I draw that comparison because Claymore's situation is pretty similar to Berserks (based off a manga, only one season.) Also I have been left wanting something different with both series. But anyway, I think the point where Claymore took a dive for me was the whole spoiler[ Pieta ] arc. Despite all the Raki hating around here, he is (or in my opinion should be) a focal point of the series. I say this because his experience with Clare spoiler[ is a parallel to Clare's relationship with Teresa ]. Well maybe focal point is a bit too strong a term, but I feel as though the series took a long time fleshing him out but now all he's good for is whining about how powerless he is (pretty much how he came into the series. Well, except for his new sword skills) The last arc of the series (though the animation I feel was quite superb) feels rather rushed to me. I don't read the manga but ironically I will be picking it up to see how events unfolded. I am a little bit worried about how the resolution would come about (in the anime.) But perhaps the manga will offer something else? To those who read the manga: is the series complete already? I haven't read any of it myself (additionally I only have access to the American manga sections so its not set in stone if a manga series is still incomplete, for it could be complete in Japan, just waiting on translation to the US) If it is complete and there is still a lot of content leftover, I question the producers initiative to squeeze all the events into one 26 part season. Don't get me wrong though, I am still going to rate Claymore quite high on my anime scale. At least there are no extended flashbacks/ explaination of what their new uber-powerful technique can do in it. Heck, from the very beginning I WANTED to love the series because I gravitate towards medieval and gory, action-packed animes. And I did. However over the course of the last 5 episodes I have lost interest and I feel the quality is lacking in comparison to how it was earlier in the series. spoiler[ The whole arc with Ophelia was definitely my favorite, followed by the old school Teresa flashback (where quite admittedly I was very confused in the first couple episodes till it dawned on me that the little girl was Clare and not someone totally different) ] Anyway if any readers of the manga could enlighten me as to whether the story has reached a conclusion or is still ongoing I would very much appreciate it. Also, if there is a satisfying conclusion to this series for me I will undoubtbly eat my words with a fork and spoon. |
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Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
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The manga is currently ongoing and is nearly finished with the 13th volume. Atm they are waiting for the next monthly magazine to start up so in the mean time they have been releasing Extra Bonus Chapters with side stories of some pivotal characters. The 4th and last Extra Chapter is due in October than it continues where it left off.
According to the author Claymore is suppose to be 25 volumes in length, of course DBZ was suppose to end after the Namek Saga so take that with a grain of salt. The manga is released monthly though so to reach from volume 14 to volume 25 will take around 5 years. I vastly prefer the manga to the anime even though the anime was very faithful to the manga up to episode 22. They ruined the Pieta fight with way too many interludes featuring Raki which broke up the flow of the Ligardo fight. Than they completely changed the ending of the fight around, this isn't really a spoiler but Isley and co are not suppose to be in Pieta, Clare's "uber" form you see at the end of episode 25 is the form she used to annihilate Ligardo in the manga. We than miss out on a touching sacrifice and after Pieta we than have massive revelations and back stories for characters that have been foreshadowed throughout the manga. What's the deal with #5 Rafaella? What's the organization been up to? #1 and #2 Claymore? What about the third abyssal one who controls the south? We than have an event which has been used a lot in anime and things are looking very interesting. All the above got thrown in the trash so the anime could make a Clare Vs Priscilla ending. All the foreshadowing and subtlety that was in Claymore throughout The Slayers, Ophelia and Rifuls arcs was dumped for a DBZ powerhouse fight. If they had finished up to the event I was talking about the ending would've been slightly like Berserk, but it would've left it open for a sequel. Sure the chances of a sequel may have been slim but you never know. Did anyone expect a second series for Kiddy Grade? A third series for Your Under Arrest? If Claymore does well in the USA they could easily have done a second series after the manga finished in 5-6 years time. But they have shot themselves in the foot it it does become a big hit since they just had to get a Priscilla vs Clare ending. Depending on how episode 26 ends to continue to another season would be next to impossible to impossible unless the material was completely new. Madhouse dropped the ball, sadly it was after doing all the hard yards too. |
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haruhikenpachi
Posts: 7 |
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Cool cool
So now I DEFINITELY have to go out and get the manga. Still seems to me that there should be another season to at the very least tie up some interesting loose ends. Is the conclusion coming up this week or what? |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 19168 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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How do you know we've missed out on the "touching sacrifice?" Although I haven't read the manga, I read enough about it while prepping my Web site to know what incident you're talking about, and I'm pretty confident it's coming in the final episode. (Episode 25 in particular certainly seemed to be setting it up.) As for the post-Pieta stuff, given the pacing of the series, the end of the Pieta story arc seems the exactly right place to put a series break.
I don't agree on the first part, and think you're rushing to judgment on the second part. Given the 26-episode constraint, telling everything is impossible. They had to end it somewhere, and again, the end of the Pieta arc is, I think indisputably, the place to do it. With that limitation, they had to spin the Clare/Priscilla showdown into the anime because those following only the anime would have felt cheated if the series ended without resolving that conflict, given how it was set up from the earlier episodes of the series as Clare's main underlying motivation.
Let's just wait and see on episode 26 on this. (Due tomorrow! Yay!) I strongly suspect it will leave a door open for a sequel, but will provide a reasonably satisfying end for those only following the anime. The series has been pretty well paced so far, so I have high hopes that Madhouse won't screw it up in the final episode. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 8016 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Nope, though I did initially have trouble getting into the series. It only started to get good with that mini arc with the Yoma in the Holy City, and then totally had me completely hooked with the flashback arc. My only disappointment is what I talked about on the previous page (46), and the fact that I wish there were more episodes, so it didn't feel so rushed. |
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DivinePlague
 Posts: 12 |
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sorry, i never played deus ex, so what's this "deus ex machina " you guys keep mentioning? i'm guessing it's some f'ed up ending.
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Westlo
Posts: 1684 |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina
I'm not even going to bother to comment on 26 except to say thank you madhouse for putting me onto a great manga. |
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DivinePlague
Posts: 12 |
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LOL! so that's what deus ex machina means. HA! (and i forgot about wikipedia). well i really didn't think they would've gone beyond season 1, but i belived that would've ended it better. i know the manga will take longer to finish cause the author gets sick pretty badly and the book goes on hiatus. this happened twice and they both lasted a couple of months. |
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DeadOrAlive
Posts: 11 Location: Singapore ! |
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Thanks for teachign me a new thing today, a asian here heh. I agreed that they wanted to trash everything up and make the ending clare VS priscilla. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 19168 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Episode 26 is now out. Except for lacking an epilogue, it played out almost exactly as I had predicted it would, but I still found it to be exceptionally well-done. It is arguably the best-looking episode of the entire series, features the most dynamic action in the whole series, is well-paced, carries with it the emotions it should have, and spoiler[finally justifies Raki's presence in the series, and pretty much as we expected.]
Most importantly, it is the right ending. It provides a sense of closure while still remaining very open-ended, brings itself back in line with the manga, and in general just feels right. It's the good ending I had hoped for, and I applaud Madhouse for their efforts. And is it just me, or is the scene at the very end where spoiler[the sun shines down on Clare before Jeane's grave] the first time in the entire series where we actually see that? If so, it's a nice extra touch. On a somewhat related subject, the completion of the series coincides with the completion of my Claymore Web site. The full version can be seen here. Since the last time I posted about it, I have added: *An Awakened Beings feature page; *A non-Claymore Supporting Characters page (essentially all of the named Elders and other humans who appeared in at least two episodes); *A Claymore-related Links page; *Anime/Manga Correlation page has been updated to include episode titles and reorganized into a neat table. Eventually I'll get around to fine-tuning some of the pictures and drawing in the Claymore symbols, but for now the site's done. If anyone comes across any other good Claymore links, please pass them on to me, and as before LMK if you spot any errors. |
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Kruszer
Posts: 8016 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I agree with Key, really liked the ending, and think it balances closure and open-ended-ness quite well simmilliar to what Madhouse did with Black Lagoon: The Second Barage. It was the only bright light in the very dark day I've been having with the bad news about Geneon.
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 12100 Location: Frisco, TX |
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My feelings are mixed. I didn't really like the ending. It's "right" if they do make a second season. But if that's all they'll ever make, I am very unsatisfied. It essentially made the whole revenge concept pointless. Not that I feel a story can't pull it off well and still be great (Berserk, anyone?). It just felt a little.. empty, like it was all for nothing. But again, this is all pending on if they make a second season (which it looks like they can, and probably will). But, at least the manga is still running strong. With Geneon's indefinite setback, though, I'll be sure to start picking it up sooner than expected (after Bleach and Berserk).
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I liked the ending. The only thing I would really like at this point is some kind of epilogue, but we rarely ever get that. As far as the references to Berserk here, if you honestly think as an anime that the ending of that was good (and the series good despite no second season) I gotta say that it is inconsistent to view Claymore badly. Berserk was killed short of even making sense at the ending, while Claymore at least has a feeling of completeness that still allows for a continuance.
I thought they did a good job. They did what they set out to do. They made a good adaptation with an appropriate ending for a one season show (which still provides the possibility for those of us wishing for more). Sure, if they were absolutely going to do a second season then they diverged further from the manga than they needed to. But they have never said they were going to do that and they may never do that, so the ending was extremely appropriate. |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 12100 Location: Frisco, TX |
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I view Berserk as a completely different beast in terms of continuity. Claymore was made by Madhouse; an esteemed, well-funded animation company that could easily make more of whatever franchise they want. Berserk was produced by Oriental Light and Magic; the people who did.. Pokémon.
Certainly, Claymore has a better chance of an additional anime, and I've already expressed how it more than likely will. Berserk felt very.. "budgeted" from the beginning. And judging from the animation company's track record, I doubt they'll ever make a continuance. But with the built-up popularity since its release and the ever-rising fervor of the manga (it rates #1 on ANN for a reason), I'm sure once Miura gets near a closure and some anime company decides to approach him, they'll probably start from scratch (if Hellsing Ultimate can happen, I'm convinced anything can at this point). As to Claymore's ending spoiler[ I agree with the continuance, but not the completeness. Unless the manga turned into a story of Clare losing her bloodthirsty vengeance just to run away from the Organization or chase after the Abyssal Ones or something, then the fact that she spared Priscilla makes everyone else's deaths feel meaningless. What was all the drama for? Why make us so attached to cheering for her to slice that bi-polar bitch into pieces? Every single person on Clare's journey that attributed to her growth as a warrior and person died in vain because of something Priscilla-related. But no, "just living as a human" is supposed be enough to quell your conscience? No thanks.] If the manga is anything like this, please tell me now. In Berserk, spoiler[ at least we know Gutts faced betrayal and the hardships of The Band of Hawk getting eaten and Caska getting raped. We know his motives, we know his goal, and it "completes" his character building and actually did provide room for additional seasons. It's just at the time, the manga was still going, and I personally thought the production company felt a little cheap. If they can go to some really decent company (DEEN, Madhouse, I.G., even Sunrise) and as long as they can keep Susumu Hirasawa doing the score, I guarantee you'd see the new Berserk anime in the top 10 of ANN.] |
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