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OEL manga jumping the shark

Xenos wrote:

Plus.. James Bond? Really? Which one? Bond is known as a horrible womanizer. Even in the new movie he wasn't too romantic. By the way, do you agree with Mr Connery that sometimes some women just need a good smack in the mouth?

So all the bond movie sucks to you, wow, you really have no sense of movie love, do ya?

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Yes. These are popular GENRES of video games. the sandbox mission based crime game. The fighter. Both popular genres of games. Manga is not a genre. Though let's look at some of your other examples anyway.

You're not thinking parallel, aren't you. Probably because your dislike of the OEL manga name and marketing schemes must be clouding your thinking. Look at the marketing schemes of OEL manga and GTA clones. WHen manga gets popular, then OEL manga gets made for the manga market. Now look at GTA3, when GTA3 got popular, then GTA Clones started to be made. Sure people might not like the OEL Manga marketing, but I don't see a lot of people hating GTA Clones (except Driver 3, 187: Ride or die).

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So you think 'supehero flicks' are a fad? So.. would you agree with the idiots who think that manga is a fad? If you ask me, superheros and comic books (not mutually exclusive) are a source that has gone untapped or wrongly tapped for decades. Now the gates are finally open.

I think manga/anime is kind of a fad for a while. I see a lot of people are becoming new to the anime/manga fad. I've been seeing a lot of anime T-Shirt, collectibles, plush dolls, and others. Superheros flicks has already became quite popular since X-men and Spiderman came out. It's like every other year, more superheroes flicks are coming out.

What does Myspace bought out by Fox have to do with manga? I'm using Myspace and their clones to compare the marketing schemes of OEL manga and social networking website. Don't say manga and Myspace are two different things. I know. I'm using the marketing schemes of myspace "clones" to compare the OEL manga marketing schemes.

You spelled mecha wrong. Again, I'm using the marketing schemes like Mazinger Z and the mecha anime after it to how manga led to the creation of OEL manga marketing schemes.

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Wait. So do you think manga is a fad? I sure hope not.

What's wrong with a fad. Sure, it helps bring anime out of the "niche" market and on to what every anime fan like me expect, a big market for everyone. You expect a regular anime otaku to watch baseball anime when there are a lot of baseball fan (like me) can watch it.

Can you compare the marketing schemes of manga and the emulation of OEL manga to a slasher flicks like Halloween and it's clone.

Hey the world revolve on marketing schemes and gimmicks. There are some that are good and there are some that is just plain bad. OEL manga isn't that horrible even for 5 years. As a matter of just beacuse they are put on hold doesn't they are gone. No, they just need more time to be prepared to be published.

As I said, they need more time for OEL manga to get published. I'm thinking the economic crisis might be affecting the OEL manga market. You spell Jack Thompson wrong. At least I don't go around saying American comic book is a danger, and say replace it with manga.

You said "OEL manga is a danger to the industry", how come the manga industry in America hasn't collapse yet. How come manga are still selling even if OEL manga are in bad time. I would give OEL manga a chance. That's sound like an equivalent of Jack Thompson's saying video game are harming the society.

Da Gamers Elite wrote:

Anime has no problem borrowing American ideas and making it their own. I mean, look at X-Men, Spawn, Highlander, Witchblade, Earthsea, Howl's Moving Castle, etc. None of them, or us, have any problem with them taking Western properties or stories and making them their own. In fact, in a few cases, we praise them. So why isn't the opposite true?

See, if Japan can emulate and reimagine what Gamer Elite Said, what's wrong with OEL manga?

Sure OEL Manga is a emulation of manga, but not all emulation is horrible. Xenos, I forgot to tell you. Da Gamers Elite is a friend of mine on Youtube, I saw his video: love it, comment it, became good online friends. He even likes my view on OEL manga. So you got me, KyuuA4, and Da Gamers Elite to deal with.

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if people are so upset about OEL manga, why aren't we annoyed with, say, manhwa? Aren't they imitating manga? Well, here's the deal: America has more to do with anime and manga than Korea does. Is it only because Korea is next door neighbors, despite being rather bitter toward one another, that they get away with it?

Elite, I tried telling that. They don't seem to be affected by it.

Moomintroll wrote:

A revolutionary emulation is oxymoronic - outside of vanguardist politics, there's no such thing as a revolutionary copy.

So all GTA clones sucks, huh.

Emulation happens all the time. Not only in OEL manga. But in video game, and other entertainment. A lot of stuff copy off all the time not only OEL manga. Don't say that manga and video game are different, I'm comparing the emulation in media. Take Playstation Network, it emulate Xbox Live. Sure Playstation Network use trophy as a emulation of Xbox live Achievments and also the Life with Playstation emulate the Wii's Weather channel and News channel. You don't see all Playstation 3 fanboys and players returning their PS3 and protesting that the Playstation 3 marketing is nothing but scam.

So what's wrong with drawing manga-style comic.

OEL is one of the good new art that anybody can try. Geez, if you're going to blame Tokyopop and other companies. I think you might want to blame all the "how to draw manga" book, that's why we have a lot of OEL manga artists.

WHY AREN'T YOU BLAMING DC AND MARVEL FOR THEIR EMULATION ON MANGA? THEY JOINED THE MANGA FAD AND ARE PROMOTING OEL MANGA.
WHY AREN'T YOU GIVING DEATH THREATS AND BASHING STAN LEE, HE'S GETTING INVOLVED WITH OEL MANGA?

mdo7 wrote:

Moomintroll wrote: A revolutionary emulation is oxymoronic - outside of vanguardist politics, there's no such thing as a revolutionary copy. So all GTA clones sucks, huh.

No. What are you talking about?
A "clone" isn't necessarily bad just because it's a copy - but it can't, logically, be "revolutionary".
This is not rocket science.

No, you're the one not thinking 4th dimensionally. Doc Brown quotes aside, you are not seeing the full picture. The argument is still going over your head. GTA is a genre. Manga is NOT A GENRE. Do you get that or am I not expressing myself monosyllabicly enough for you to understand?

Manga is the output of comics in Japan.

Superhero is one genre of comic book. Sure it's one that's dominated the medium, but it's not the only one. You should not connect superheros with manga.

It's like comparing GTA clones with Japanese games in general.

What we're talking about is on a whole other level.

Sports manga just don't sell in America despite the popularity of the sport.

Oh and in the words of the 'prophet' Bill Hicks, people who make a living on marketing should hang themselves for the sake of their own soul. They are satan's little helpers dragging the world down one soulless artless pornographic advertisement at a time.

You refuse to simply call them by a proper English name. More OEL manga is not the answer. Just speak English, kid. Is it that difficult?

Because MANGA STYLE DOESN'T EXIST! It's a stereotype.

My name is Drawing Manga Style. Crap of crap.
Look upon my works ye mighty and despair.

Fetish? Do you even know what a fetish really is, I wonder?

People have copied art all the time, and it has brought progress. I am not trying to be Japanese. I'm a proud American.

You are dragging race into an issue that isn't about race at all. What makes you think it's about race anyway?

I was talking about taking an art form from another country, and trying to emulate it. Emulations happen all the time. Virtually every video game on the market, for example, is an emulation of one another.

Almost all the old Platform video games are emulations. Almost all fighting games are emulations. And yet no one sees that as an abomination or anything. I am surprised by how ridiculous that comeback is.

Besides, I can tell you're desperate. You wouldn't be putting up such a weak argument otherwise.

Again, you bring up race. Here's food for thought: when producing an emulation which you wish to look a little authentic, usually it is wise to use names that are similar to the names used in the original source material.

You wouldn't name characters in an emulation of Jane Austin's work, for example, Mary Joe or Sasuke. It would sound ridiculous. So if you're emulating Japanese manga from Japan, it would be ridiculous, if you want to capture the feel of the Japanese manga, to name characters Jane or John. It would feel almost like the story was lost in translation.

You claim to know how a manga works. Alright then, explain it. Tell me how you know the exact mechanics of a massive industry with millions of different volumes of completely different stories with opposing sides of a massive, multi-dimensional spectrum spanning topics. How can anyone, even the manga industry itself, explain just what makes the ENTIRE manga industry work and function?.

The truth is, try as you might, you will ALWAYS miss major parts. I'm not saying I can explain it fully either, because I can't. Anyone who claims they can is lying to themselves and those around them, not to mention make themselves look like the purist you're accusing us of being.

Addressing your second point, manga are Japanese, so it being written right to left is not a conscious choice made to make itself an individual. However, in emulations and duplications, every detail, no matter how insignificant, must be replicated in order for it to be a true emulation.

And it being right to left makes it look more authentic. Like I said, it serves no practical use other than looking aesthetically authentic.

So you're essentially damning the entire industry of OEL manga because you think that the people who made OEL manga didn't know what they were talking about? You must understand that Japan was adapting American art, not emulating it. Emulation and adaptation are incredibly different. Adaptation is when you take something, and make it your own. Emulation is when you take something, make it in your own image, but make sure that you remain within the confines of the original.

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No. It's not. They're the same thing. Unless OEL manga has some magical Japanese pixie dust no one's telling me about.

Explain how it's different. Please, enlighten me. I'm waiting. Please, I love arguing and disproving your points. I'd love to hear it.

Emulations aren't carbon copies, but simply copying concepts of the original source material. With the logic you just used, you might as well buy only a few manga, as pretty much every single other manga in the continuum of manga all follow the same story lines with alterations. Some use these alterations to make them superior to the predecessors, just like OEL manga might do in the future.

Once again, THAT IS INSPIRATION, NOT EMULATION!!!! If they were trying to emulate all those things, they would have tried to make the art style similar to the original source material, make the story in the format of the original source material, etc! It was adaption. Inspiration. But neither of those are emulations.

You are almost starting to sound paranoid. Are you employing "If you're not with us you're against us" mentality? If so, you sound ridiculous. Never once did I mention if I was a manga-ka, no did I ever mention that Japan was superior or if America was superior.

In all honesty, I can care less.

The reason I am supporting OEL manga is because I like manga, and I like seeing people from all around the world have a chance to emulate manga. Isn't there an old saying that goes that the greatest form of respect is copying? Doesn't it make you proud that the source material you're defending is receiving such great respect that people want to try to copy it, dissect it, try to emulate what exactly makes this medium so great that we all flock to it?

Once again, I do not have a Japanese fetish, nor have I ever had a Japanese fetish.

You are sounding remarkably immature and childish if you are trying to make it seem that respecting emulations of something else is stupid.

Without emulations, we truly would be lost, because most of society is based on emulations. I am well aware I'm not in Japan. Nor am I publishing on the Japanese market. And I don't personally care for creating original properties with Japanese names. But others do. And why should we damn them for that?

NOTE: I'm amused @ Xeno's name-calling.

Then SPEAK ENGLISH, not Japanese. You keep tossing in a Japanese word. How is that not trying to be Japanese?

No, I don't wanna know how you got your OEL scars.

Xenos wrote:

Then SPEAK ENGLISH, not Japanese. You keep tossing in a Japanese word. How is that not trying to be Japanese?

Hey Xenos. Quick question: SUB OR DUB?!

KyuuA4 wrote:

Xenos wrote: Then SPEAK ENGLISH, not Japanese. You keep tossing in a Japanese word. How is that not trying to be Japanese? Hey Xenos. Quick question: SUB OR DUB?!

Well that debate is meaningless when talking about manga. Plus it's pretty damn meaningless overall since the industry standard for anime is the DVD where the option is for both. Meanwhile the real debate is the American dub vs the Japanese dub. That's usually judged on a show by show basis.

Why must you people think in such simple terms?

Why must you people think in such simple terms?

Correct. Manga is a MEDIUM -- and NO form of media is limited geographically.

Xenos wrote:

Manga is the output of comics in Japan.

And it can be copied and emulated - where other parts of the world can create its own homebrew manga.

Y'know. There's an anime called "Romeo and Juliet". I'm torrenting it now actually; so I'll get to watch it later. While the story of "Romeo and Juliet" originated in England by Shakespeare -- it's a story so famous such that any replications and references -- it's still "Romeo and Juliet" regardless (not just ロミオ×ジュリエット).

Xenos wrote:

It's like comparing GTA clones with Japanese games in general.

Sorry. A video game is a video game. There's no such thing as "Japanese games". Not even Hentai games.

[quote="Xenos"]Oh, imagine a day of OEL hentai. Oh man. I have a feeling there would be far more different fetishes coming out of that. Probably something more bizzare than Naughty tentacles. Of course, this won't be possible because of the FCC -- but I guess, thank goodness for that.

Imagine Southern White Trash hentai.

Xenos wrote:

You refuse to simply call them by a proper English name. More OEL manga is not the answer. Just speak English, kid. Is it that difficult?

日本語は楽しいいですよ！！！

Xenos wrote:

Because MANGA STYLE DOESN'T EXIST! It's a stereotype.

Pssh. Words of 1090% pure denial.

Manga is so too a style.

It has its own set of rules -- as far as development and drawing-style is concerned. From a VISUAL standpoint -- it's an obvious style.

NOTE: All forms of ART belong to a style. Manga is NO exception.

Xenos wrote:

My name is Drawing Manga Style. Crap of crap. Look upon my works ye mighty and despair.

I'll have to agree. Just by the cover of that book -- it SUCKS. Nevertheless, books like that teaches the BASICS.

Now, I have to wonder; is this book series limited to Japanese only?
http://www.howtodrawmanga.com/

IIf so, why bother selling it in non-Japanese markets? So, non-Japanese kids can draw non-manga instead?! I don't think so!

IDrawing manga can be learned -- BY ANYONE and ANYWHERE. If someone can do it at the PROFESSIONAL LEVEL -- they can darn well please. Not a skeptic like you - can stop them. Simple as that.

if people are so upset about OEL manga, why aren't we annoyed with, say, manhwa? Aren't they imitating manga? Well, here's the deal: America has more to do with anime and manga than Korea does. Is it only because Korea is next door neighbors, despite being rather bitter toward one another, that they get away with it?

Manga is the NAME for the medium in Japanese. Here we call it comics. Yet you have a hang up with speaking in Japanese for some reason and that is causing you trouble having sane conversations in English.

When in doubt, just use the word comic. There are many words to describe something, there is no need to stick to just that one Japanese word.

there never was and never will be only one style.

Alright. It's a SET of styles. Any one of us can look at various works and say, "It's manga" or "It's not manga".

The set amount of styles within any one medium is infinite. The only thing that it's constrained by is any physical limitations posed by the medium itself.

We've given plenty of examples with manga. Where are yours?

DEFINE THIS MANGA STYLE.