×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
ANNCast - Sargento Soma


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Renaisance Otaku



Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 469
Location: Modesto, CA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:12 am Reply with quote
Thanks for the info on the Ghost in the Shell 2.0 Blu-ray. It's a shame to hear the original version looks so bad on it. Guess I'll just keep my old VHS. I'm not too fond of the 2.0 version. It not even so much the added CGI, since there was CG in the original, though some hand drawn sequences were replaced if memory serves. It's the tinting that bothers me mostly. A lot of times, the green shows through. It also drastically changes the look and feel of the film. Especially at the end. A lot of the scenes there are blueish, and they jump back and forth, and the orange doesn't flow with it like the green did. It's a touch jarring.

As for the SE comparison, it's not nearly the same, though they did change the gender of the puppet master. Though, like with the color, one doesn't need mass story changes to alter the feel and personality of something. I can understand the screen updating, but I don't see how orange is more futuristic than green (too much harkening to old PCs?). At least 2.0 doesn't try to bury the existence of the original like Lucasfilm does. Nothing wrong with an alternative, as long as that's what it is. Still, this seems like it was done merely as a promo (sort of like how I felt the SE's were mostly done as a lure rather than an actual attempt to improve the films since a lot of it is so shoddily done).

Interesting to hear all the licenses lapsed at Manga. Especially The End of Evangelion. I'm glad I actually got the sub tape back when it came out (may not have the resolution, but didn't suffer from the dropped minor subtitles and overload of audio tracks).

Concerning the sub/dub comparison, not wanting to open up that can of worms fully, but if one argues you can't judge something you don't understand the language of, I think it's fair to remember that you can judge what you do understand. One might not be able to know a sub is bad, but they can with a dub. I think the nail was hit on the head with the statement that anything sounds better in your head. I also agree that the more you watch, the better you can grasp it. It's really not that hard to note inflictions and tones, even in foreign speech. I think it also has to do with personal preference. Sometimes a voice just sounds better in another language. It's like how I can enjoy J-pop/rock songs without knowing the words. It becomes less about the lyrics and more about the pure sound of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger My Anime My Manga
Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:13 am Reply with quote
I found your different taste interesting. Personally unlike Justin, I do have to agree with the characters to enjoy them.

For example with Gundam 00 I saw Celestial Being as hypocrites who used their superior strength to force the world to be something against the will of the people. This has a lot to do with the fact that while I do disagree with a large part of America I also love being an American.

I also have to say that I did suffer from depression, I took Zoloft, Shinji is actually pretty tolerable. It's Ritsuko, Asuka, and the rest of the cast that makes me hate Evangelion. Also Shinji is underated as a hero, he does sometimes man up, and does some awesome things because he needs too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AnimenexuS





PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:35 am Reply with quote
re-re-releae of Ghost in the Shell manga WHY?
remove again
Think about it buying Now I hunt the 2nd with page back



Will there amazon


Last edited by AnimenexuS on Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:50 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8458
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:35 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
I found your different taste interesting. Personally unlike Justin, I do have to agree with the characters to enjoy them.

For example with Gundam 00 I saw Celestial Being as hypocrites who used their superior strength to force the world to be something against the will of the people. This has a lot to do with the fact that while I do disagree with a large part of America I also love being an American.



I see this as a very immature approach to fiction. I can't imagine not liking something like The Sopranos or Pulp Fiction because I think the characters are cruel murderers

Some of my favorite characters in fiction are terrible, terrible people, or likable ones that I simply disagree with. A good story is a good story, regardless of the morality of its characters or my acceptance of their ideas. Good writers and directors will have you accepting ideas you mostly disagree with on the simple basis of enjoyment.

Also, I have to roll my eyes at your continuing mentions of Celestial Being. The world was on the brink of war, and by intervening, they showed the world the infighting would not be tolerated. If they hadn't come in, the power blocs would have continued to manipulate those conflicts as an excuse to go to war. It was all pretty well spelled out. Celestial Being realizes the hypocrisy of trying to stop violence with violence, but their solution was better than the alternative of doing nothing. It's not the best idea, but that's the point.

Also, what did you expect in a Gundam series? Everybody sitting down to a conference table and working things out without the use of giant humanoid battle machines? Yeah, that would have sold well.

They end up realizing they were dupes for Ribbons et al, anyway.

My tastes tend to be somewhat similar to both Zac and Justin's, with a few differences here and there. I often find myself at odds with the little details.

I love that second Patlabor movie, but mostly because of its focus on Captains Gotoh and Nagumo, who I always felt were the most interesting members of the cast. I think I mostly misunderstood it the first few times I watched it, since it was so politically charged, but I have a far different perspective of it now. I don't think 9/11 had anything to do with it, though.

I remember when Manga Entertainment was still relevant. It's funny how they couldn't even pronounce "manga" correctly for a while. I remember them doing what ADV did, and grab every anime it could, regardless of quality, and you ended up with four bad titles for every one good one. I also remember the hilariously bad English dubs. But that was old guard Manga Entertainment, I guess.

Johan is more of a monster than any horror monster. But Syfy's six commercial breaks per episode is the real monster. If I have to sit through another Sonic commercial, I'm going to go into a seizure. I don't remember the channel's anime block from years ago having so many damn breaks.

So Manga Entertainment still has Macross Plus? I wish it would get a better DVD release, not a VHS transfer. I'm glad they lost End of Evangelion, now a competent licensor can rescue it. Hopefully Funimation.

And, for the record, I think Shinji is severely screwed up, and at times a terrible person, but completely understandable, and fairly sympathetic. If you don't like who he is, that's sort of the point Anno was trying to make. Shinji's struggles are supposed to lead him to a place of accepting his value and the value of the world around him. If he starts off self-realized, it would largely defeat the purpose of several of the show's themes.


Last edited by penguintruth on Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:43 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address My Anime My Manga
David.Seth



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 453
Location: near SF
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:39 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:

I also have to say that I did suffer from depression... Shinji is actually pretty tolerable


I feel the same way.

BTW, where was the update about our current guest? Im sure it was on twitter, but I never go there. Not that I had anything of importance to ask Steve Sargent, but if I had some burning question I would have missed out. I did visit the ANNCast Community Thread but found no update. Crying or Very sad But besides that I really enjoyed this episode. Themed episodes are a good idea, but I recommend keeping them to the first half. That way, if I don't dig the theme, I still have the guest to look forward too.



and Rushmore really is a great film.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:44 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Charred Knight wrote:
I found your different taste interesting. Personally unlike Justin, I do have to agree with the characters to enjoy them.

For example with Gundam 00 I saw Celestial Being as hypocrites who used their superior strength to force the world to be something against the will of the people. This has a lot to do with the fact that while I do disagree with a large part of America I also love being an American.



I see this as a very immature approach to fiction. I can't imagine not liking something like The Sopranos or Pulp Fiction because I think the characters are cruel murderers

Some of my favorite characters in fiction are terrible, terrible people, or likable ones that I simply disagree with. A good story is a good story, regardless of the morality of its characters or my acceptance of their ideas. Good writers and directors will have you accepting ideas you mostly disagree with on the simple basis of enjoyment.

Also, I have to roll my eyes at your continuing mentions of Celestial Being. The world was on the brink of war, and by intervening, they showed the world the infighting would not be tolerated. If they hadn't come in, the power blocs would have continued to manipulate those conflicts as an excuse to go to war. It was all pretty well spelled out. Celestial Being realizes the hypocrisy of trying to stop violence with violence, but their solution was better than the alternative of doing nothing.

What did you expect in a Gundam series? Everybody sitting down to a conference table and working things out without the use of giant humanoid battle machines? Yeah, that would have sold well.
.


The talking was pretty interesting in Turn A Gundam. Personally I would have no problem if they had kept the same general atmposphere of the first season, when you have to derail the other side to make your heroes look good than you did a crappy job.

The difference between Gundam 00 and The Sopranos is that the first wants me to agree with people who force people to do what they want, and the second is a drama about the mob. I don't think they want me to see Tony as a great guy.


Last edited by Charred Knight on Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:49 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8458
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:47 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
he difference between Gundam 00 and The Sopranos is that the first wants me to agree with people who force people to do what they want, and the second is a drama about the mob. I don't think they want me to see Tony as a great guy.


I don't think they were trying to paint Celestial Being as being a bunch of great guys, either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:55 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:


I don't think they were trying to paint Celestial Being as being a bunch of great guys, either.


uh yeah they did, Setsuna is basically protrayed as Jesus. His supposed to be the new messiah.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8458
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:57 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
penguintruth wrote:


I don't think they were trying to paint Celestial Being as being a bunch of great guys, either.


uh yeah they did, Setsuna is basically protrayed as Jesus. His supposed to be the new messiah.


And when is it that Setsuna becomes a realized Innovator? When is it that he develops into somebody who might be worth admiring? Towards the end of the series, after episodes of growth.

I don't really think he's portrayed quite as big as a Messiah. Its more like the Gundam 00 is Messiah. I had problems with that myself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Renaisance Otaku



Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 469
Location: Modesto, CA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:01 am Reply with quote
I agree with Penguin Truth on the idea that one doesn't necessarily need to identify with a character to like them. They merely need to understand them. While I'm not 100% happy go lucky, I don't think you need to have gone through depression to understand Shinji's character. He's a boy who's been neglected by his father, yet still wants acceptence from him, or anybody for that matter. You may not like how he deals with it, but it's sort of the point of the show is seeing his growth over the course of it. It's all about understanding fiction and seperating it from the real world. I think it depends on how well it's handled, as usually, I only dislike a character when his/her motivations become seemingly unclear (like if Shinji had acted that way despite having a perfectly normal family and charmed life or a stuck up character suddenly becoming soft with seemingly no trigger) or they lack point. Kind of how I like a lot of characters that i would probably never be friends with in reality because they're either psychotic, emotional, or whatnot.

Identifying with a character goes a long why in deepening a connection with a show, but if it were required, a lot of shows would outright fail just because of being too outlandish. Some of the best fiction gets you to cheer for someone you normally wouldn't or even reflect on the downside of someone you would (like getting an anime fan to laugh at the absurdity of anime fans). Character foibles can make for the most interesting characters (like how I love Mitsuki Hayase from KGNE when most people just saw her as a man stealer, not willing to take the character beyond face value). I've also found I'm far more accepting of flawed/one dimensional characters in comedies.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger My Anime My Manga
Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:04 am Reply with quote
CRAP! Manga no longer has Mad Bull!

Quick! Someone not only liscense it but make more!

I need my racist portrayal of black people and crazed american cop who kill large amounts of people and sleep with tons of women!

Oh for those of you who don't know what Mad Bull is, here's Mike Toole's review of it.

http://www.animejump.com/index.php?module=prodreviews&func=showcontent&id=115
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:27 am Reply with quote
"What do you say to short-sighted scy-fy fans who think anime has no place on the channel?"

Firefly had no place in theaters? Wink

Anyway, surprised the company lost Perfect Blue, given that it's a fortuitous time to cash in on Kon right now. Oh, and thanks for the background info on Angel's Egg, Justin. Manga reps have been unusually clueless about it for a while now. You didn't confirm if it was both the OVAs and movie for M+, though. And now that I think about it, I should've asked if he knew anything else about the LA Ninja Scroll. As for Blood, Ebert had a similar misunderstanding with the cultural elements of the LA movie. Anyway, the English dub in the original Japanese track for Robot Carnival's far worse than the one for Blood.

Zac: "I love...There Will Be Blood"

But have you seen There Will Be Bud? Laughing

"[Eva] is almost universally hated by people who don't like thinking about difficult or angry"

No, we just don't like bullshit masquerading as depth.

"[Han shoots first] is not a key plot point"

Oh, and neither is Hayden Christensen's hologram being ret-conned into Jedi. Rolling Eyes

Justin: "the characters have to have depth"

Technically a manga, but are you into Mars?

"Unless you've gone through a chemical depresion, [Eva] won't make any sense to you"

I think the problem with the show is that it does make sense, but the way it expands the concept is fairly shallow.

"I was unable to connect w/ Patlabor 2 until 9/11"

I can sort of see where you're coming from on it, even though the movie's more about paranoia over America's presence and influence in Japanese society than terrorism. My 9/11 anime was Metropolis. And the one I didn't connect with, and only made a pretext to connect with, until after 9/11, was the second short in Memories.
BTW, did you ever get the discounted version of that overpriced Patlabor 2 collection from Honneamise?

"None of [these extras] are on the dvd"

I guess they decided they could piss off fans who bought GITS 2 from DW, too. Razz

"They gotta put [the GITS manga] in bookstores, and bookstores don't like shrink-wrap"

I think it's more like KC is hoping it can sucker people who didn't get the unedited DH release by now, since there's no reason to re-release the manga in the first place with that edition still available in most places.

Steve: Thanks for letting me know about GL.

Renaisance: I'm just wondering if Great Tax will charge another ransom for whomever license-rescues the Eva movies.

Quote:
You may not like how he deals with it, but it's sort of the point of the show is seeing his growth over the course of it.


Except he doesn't grow. He hits a plateau, and stagnates.

Charred:
Quote:
It's Ritsuko, Asuka, and the rest of the cast that makes me hate Evangelion.


Yeah, they're fairly vile bastards, too. I just don't like Shinji, because he almost never does anything for himself; and when he does, he makes the supporting cast look reasonable, by comparison.

penguin: The relationship between Gotoh and Nagum's about the only thing that makes Patlabor 2 tolerable for me. I hate to be a contrarian, but WXIII is a better sequel.

Quote:
Shinji's struggles are supposed to lead him to a place of accepting his value and the value of the world around him.


Exccept that doesn't happen, thus defeating the whole purpose of the show.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
captainbanana



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:21 am Reply with quote
Having watched a hundred shows with a character just like Shinji (a weak willed, whiny child) it isn't even that aspect that rubs me in the wrong way when it comes to Evangelion. The part that I find unwatchable is when they start talking about pseudo-religious topics, and how it relates to the plot at hand. It's as if they opened a few holy books, picked out some cool sounding words, and then mashed it all together into something that doesn't really do any of those books justice.

Coming from someone that has loved literally everything else Gainax has ever done, it takes a lot for me to dislike one of their shows. I understand why some people like it, and I really didn't mind it (until the last few , with the infamous un-animated last episodes) but I think it pales when you put it next to Gurren Lagann or Gunbuster (to compare Gainax mecha shows apples to apples) or FLCL. (And yes, I understood Eva, to preempt the classic "It's a masterpiece, you just don't get it" argument)

Having said all of that, I don't think you'd need to have been clinically depressed at some point in your life to enjoy Evangelion. I've never been insane, and I enjoyed Perfect Blue. It does heighten the bond between yourself and a character though if you can personally relate to what they are going through (FLCL was that for me).

On an unrelated note, can anime on Blu-Ray survive in the US when you can find a relatively new title for that cheap? How does anyone make money at that price?



(Oh, and RahXephon is a better version of Evangelion. Yes, I know that I'm most certainly in the minority with this opinion)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8458
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:30 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
I hate to be a contrarian


Could have fooled me.

Also, what? Patlabor 2 is about American influence to you? Oh wow.

Quote:
Except that doesn't happen, thus defeating the whole purpose of the show.


Looks like somebody didn't see End of Evangelion.

spoiler[You know, the movie in which Shinji chooses to live in a world of pain and suffering because it's real, rather than the convenience of the world of Instrumentality. He may not be exactly well-adjusted at the end, but he's come to realize the value of the world, even if it's dysfunctional. He's not perfectly adult, but he's matured. ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:43 am Reply with quote
captainbanana wrote:
Having watched a hundred shows with a character just like Shinji (a weak willed, whiny child) it isn't even that aspect that rubs me in the wrong way when it comes to Evangelion. The part that I find unwatchable is when they start talking about pseudo-religious topics, and how it relates to the plot at hand. It's as if they opened a few holy books, picked out some cool sounding words, and then mashed it all together into something that doesn't really do any of those books justice.

That's exactly what they did. Barely any of the religious refrences mean anything. They did it because they found religion cool which lead to a bunch of crappy shows about wangsty people where the entire series is pretentious as hell.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group