Forum - View topicFullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood -[adult swim] (w/index).
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Dune
Posts: 223 |
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Oh right, Rush Valley. I enjoyed the one scene between Ed and Winry; the other stuff was too erratic for my tastes.
I will say this though, I like Paninya as a character. She's kind of underutilized in the long run. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8627 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Ugh, I can't stand the Rush Valley portion of the story. Mercifully, they cut it down. Three chapters of it in the manga tested my commitment to the series. And Caitlin Glass' Winry is all over the place.
I never noticed before that Paninya's English VA is the same as Chi-Chi's from DBZ. She's not really good at either character. Vic Mignogna was particularly bad in this episode, too. To be positive, though... Izumi next week! |
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JacobC
ANN Past Staff
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Kay, I'm kinda late to the party on this one, but I just saw ep. 10 because I was curious as to how spoiler[Hughes' death] was handled. I always thought that was one of the most striking differences between finesse in the earlier stages of the manga and the first anime. It was a pretty blah footnote in the manga and I was more stunned and confused than I was deeply saddened. The first anime is more famous for making it a rip-out-yer-heart and stomp on it affair.
Brotherhood came out a little better than I thought it would! Of course, I don't think terrible much of it, so that's not saying a whole lot, but it was honestly a fairly good episode. But as others have mentioned: Did they HAVE to take what was there and FORCE it more? Okay, the manga's treatment of spoiler[Hughes death] was kinda shoddy, but well, that's what it was so I spose you have to go with it, if this is supposed to be the "faithful" adaptation. Buuuuut they didn't, they thought adding completely unwelcome melodramatic cliches would be a great idea instead. Did we...need to see spoiler[Hughes giving his "touching" final words while blood coated the family photograph?] Nooooo, I don't really think so. The over-the-top music didn't really help either. I guess I'm still not used to it. The music in FMA could be just as grandiose and melodramatic, but it was used better. I almost feel like I'm watching Digimon again when I watch Brotherhood (okay...I HAVE been watching Digimon) because they just take loud overbearing dramatic music and jam it in any situation they think needs it. This series definitely seems afraid of silence, but then again, it's sort of rushed overall. Anyway, it wasn't a big deal, I wasn't really annoyed until Mustang's line (and it may be dub-only, but I doubt it,) "I think Hughes deserves an answer. I'm going to do this because I have to. This is something I have to do." WOW. Just...WOW. Subtlety, guys. Subtlety. We never got a line like this in the first version because we do not need it. Show don't tell. In the first series, Mustang's actions were striking because he seemed to be kissing some serious higher-up backside after Hughes' death and it was pretty despicable. But we still had the feeling he had good intentions because of his conversation with Armstrong, which was kept in this version as well. The ambiguity of it all kept it interesting. I don't know, I hope they don't think anime fans are getting stupider in the same way that American TV is changing its approach over time. This show continues to have the subtlety and finesse of a gorgeous vase being slammed against a wall. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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There's a difference between subtlety and non-existant, at no point in the first anime did I ever feel like Mustang ever gave a crap about Hughes after the funeral scene.
Also once again I must ask why the hell are you watching this show, you clearly don't like Hiromu Arakawa's writing style, much like how I don't like Seiji Mizushima's Directorial style. You don't like Arakawa's lack of subtlety (you can get the full FMA experience by reading the script) and I don't like how Seiji Mizushima's always focuses on one character. I mean I could understand if yoiur complaints are only found in the anime but their all from the manga. Hiromu Arakawa doesn't waste time smelling the roses, she doesn't use untrue exposition, her characters are loud, and her battles are sometimes over the top. Personally I love that, I love how quickly the plot moves without wasting my time on unecessary things, I love the fact that when I get exposition I am not going to get scenes that contradict it, I love the fact that I can read a script and not miss out on what's going on. I love how emotional her characters are, and how every single character is a badass. |
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amarielah
 Posts: 178 |
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Yes, you have made it clear that you don't like having to suss out character motivations by context. But the context was there, as I pointed out on the adult swim forums. spoiler[ A very Big Deal was made of the fact that Mustang was apparently not trying to avenge Hughes' death. And Mustang later states explicitly that he's going after Bradley in order to get revenge. So they did leave it ambiguous up to a point, but eventually made it clear what Mustang's motivation was the whole time--revenge. ] So it most certainly was not non-existent. Or, for that matter, all that subtle. It was just subtler than the way it was handled in the manga or Brotherhood.
You obviously don't know anything about JO, dude. It's really obnoxious to make assumptions about people just because their opinion differs from yours. And, for the record, it's entirely possible to enjoy a series while still criticizing it mercilessly. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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I need more than a line to feel like Mustang has lost someone important to him. Ed certainly got more than a line. The manga/ Brotherhood gave Mustang an entire subplot about him looking for the person responsible. All of JesuOtaku's complaints except for the music have to do with Hiormu Arakawa and how she writes. and that last part made no sense, if I criticize a series heavily than I am not enjoying it. If I was enjoying it than I wouldn't be heavily criticizing it. It's not exactly rocket scientist. I only heavily criticize's shows I despise such as Code Geass R2, and the first Fullmetal Alchemist anime. |
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amarielah
Posts: 178 |
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And they gave him more than a line, as I pointed out. They gave him spoiler[ several scenes dealing with his apparent lack of vengefulness, and-- I don't know how you could have missed this one-- an entire, very epic battle explicitly dedicated to avenging Hughes. ] spoiler[ I don't know how you could have missed the fact that his going along with the military's plans WAS his way of looking for the person responsible. And it actually worked. ]
Firstly, those are your inferences. Secondly, you'd still be making stupid assumptions. Not liking the way that somebody writes some of the time =/= not liking the way they write period.
So basically your logic is: "I can't like a series if it leads me to criticize it, therefore nobody else can." Other people don't always experience enjoyment in the same way you do. For example, I enjoy Supernatural a great deal, but that doesn't stop me from picking it apart when it does something stupid. Even if you don't understand it yourself, you should accept that other people may very well enjoy the things they criticize. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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No the battle your talking about had nothing to do with Hughes, that person wasn't involved, and Mustang wasn't exactly having a Roaring Rampage of Revenge. Do you honestly want to compare it to episode 53 and 54 of Brotherhood? Can you critcize a show you like? Yeah, but if you make paragraph after paragraph complaining about everything about the show and then maybe point out one thing it did right than you probably don't like it. |
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amarielah
Posts: 178 |
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As I've said I don't know how many times in the past few posts, spoiler[ Roy EXPLICITLY STATED that he was going after Bradley for revenge. ] So it had everything to do with Hughes. To paraphrase the scene between Edward and Roy in episode 48: spoiler[ Edward: You do realize that going against the Fuhrer directly is going to be unforgivable in the eyes of the public, right? Even if you pull it off, you'll never be able to succeed him. Roy: That may be, but even so...I can't let him get away with what he's done. Edward: So you're doing all this to avenge Hughes... Roy: You got it. He must have known what was going on in the military, and that's why he was killed. Edward: And for that you're willing to throw away everything you've worked for your entire career? Roy: Without a second thought. ] Your argument loses a lot of credibility when it's based on misremembered events. It loses even more credibility when you continuously ignore the factual evidence pointed out by others that undermines it. And no, I don't want to compare it to those episodes in Brotherhood, because those comparisons are irrelevant. You say that anime!Roy wasn't doing it for revenge, I say that it's clear as day that he was. That's it.
Possibly. The thing here is that you're equating criticizing Brotherhood with criticizing the manga, so you take every criticism of Brotherhood (provided that it's leveled by people who also like the first anime) as a criticism against Arakawa. If you've actually been paying attention to the content of JO's comments, you'd notice that all of her vehemence is directed to Brotherhood alone. She does have some criticisms for the manga, but they're far fewer and far less passionate. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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spoiler[King Bradley had nothing to do with Maes Hughes death other than being a Homunculus.! In the first anime Maes Hiughes discovered that King Bradley's secretary was a war criminal, that was it. He didn't kill Hughes Envy did. ]
Those lines are basically inserted as an after thought considering how little that fight had to do with it, and how it appears in the 4th to last episode. I could understand if they had Mustang just torch the place with everyone still inside just to show hom pissed off Mustang was but they didn't the fight had nothing to do with Maes Hughes except for Mustang saying that it did. It's a classic example of telling and not showing. I got more angry at spoiler[Yoki's] death than Mustang did at Hughes death. As for JesuOtaku's post the main brunt of her problem was a lack of subtlety something that Hiromu Arakawa is quite known for. Her villains look like villains, and characters are incredibly emotional. |
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amarielah
Posts: 178 |
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@ Charred Knight, two posts down:
Actually, you're right that it's gotten out of hand. And I got quite bitchy in this reply, so I apologize. tl;dr: I don't think you're taking the foreshadowing after Hughes' funeral into account, or, alternatively, you're assessing it based on your subjective reaction to Mustang's considerably less extreme response when compared to the manga, and not on its own merits as a unique work of fiction. Last edited by amarielah on Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:27 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Being known for poor writing technique doesn't excuse the poor writing technique. People enjoy looking for hints regarding plot or character motivation; throwing all of that stuff directly into the reader/viewer's face is just irritating. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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I just made a huge post but frankly this topic has got out of hand and I don't want to make posts while angry like this.
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Maidenoftheredhand
 Posts: 2636 |
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Well first of all I disagree with Charred Knight or basically I disagree with pretty much everyone on here about the lack of subtlety in the manga VS the extremely subtlety of the first series. Everything is certainly not shoved in the reader's face in the manga either. It was pretty clear to me in both series who were the villains (no subtlety there) and you know my god all the characters motivations in both series were as clear as day to me by the end because we were told. No really please explain to me all this subtlety in the first series. I guess we weren't told Envy, Dante, Scar, Lust's, Sloth's Wrath's motivations then? Wow so subtle (the only characters that were left out were Pride and Gluttony. Now I am not saying this is a fault of the series that every character's motivations were not explained but I am also not going to scream it praises of subtlety). Also you know what the real difference between Roy's revenge for Hughes in both series. It wasn't that the first anime it was more subtle, it was that it felt to me like an after thought. No I don't care that it was only mentioned briefly at the end of the first anime. I am not going to say the first anime is bad because of this it wasn't. The first anime focused more on Hughes when he was alive. He was a more important character. In the manga he was just a minor character (in fact I didn't like how Brotherhood increases Hughes scenes) but his death added to the growth of Roy. In the manga what happened to Hughes is much more important to Roy's character. So you know what the real difference between Brotherhood & the first series. In the first series the big event is Hughes death himself. In the manga his death just sparks bigger things for other characters.
This isn't the exact line in the manga (and I don't recall what the line is in the Japanese version of Brotherhood). But yes Mustang says he is definitely going to find out who killed Hughes (he doesn't mention Revenge at all actually.) He also says that doing this and going to the top of the country are the same exact thing. There is actually way more to what he says & actually means and it's not as straightforward or direct as you make it out to be. And in fact you are misinterpreting the scene even with the so called in your face directness. |
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amarielah
Posts: 178 |
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May I ask, in all seriousness: When was the last time you watched the first series in its entirety? I agree that his revenge plot wasn't very subtle in either version, though it was definitely subtler in the first series. In the sense that it was left ambiguous (though still addressed) until the climax of the story. And I think what Charred Knight is getting at with "the villains being very obviously villains" is that Arakawa's villains do tend to have fewer shades of grey. The whole good/evil divide in the manga, by that definition, isn't very subtle. |
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