Forum - View topicNEWS: U.S., Japanese Publishers Unite Against Manga Scan Sites
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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That was sarcasm, wasn't it? A kid likely using an aka log-on still got caught. They can find you most of the time. Even those who know how to hide stuff get caught unless they keep changing their method. Whe I worked at Wards, the jewelry manager commented they had some thefts that were brilliant & had the employee stopped at one, he'd have never been caught, but after enough times, they figured out what he was doing & he got nailed. So even though I use this name most everywhere I go on anime-related sites (even photobucket), if the law wanted to talk to me, they could find me.
Your concept doesn't seem to jibe with what I was saying. Yeah, movie review SHOWS on the tv usually have clips, but printed reviews do not have to have a picture, so obviously you have every ability to rant & rave against Viacom (I hate Walmart myself). You just have no right to use clips from their shows to do so. I don't really see any need of "fair use" to use clips of shows. Make your own to advertise your own stuff. Are you worried no one would watch your little clip unless you include a clip of whatever you're talking about? Weak & lame. Stand on your own feet.
Actually my initials are MEH & according to some site about how many people have your name, there are a couple thousand Americans with my exact same name. Thank heaven for different places of birth, fingerprints & DNA. On the other hand, I have no idea how my initials became so popular on the internet.
Sorry. Little Johnny has no right to post clips from the anime called Naruto or the manga called Naruto or anything else little Johnny didn't make with his own little hands unless he has permission from the company/artist that made it.
TRSI lets me view their porn videos because I agree I'm over 18.
My kitties could care less about tv. They aren't posting any videos. Although my new formerly feral kitten Thor loves to run across the keyboard & always manages to take me to websites I've never seen when he does. My theory is he enjoys the keys massaging his little footpads. However, he's always opening IE help, so he may be trying to learn to surf the net. He ended up at a shoping site on my daughter's computer, so maybe he's trying to buy catfood.
I know there's that conspiracy theory that companies post fake reviews (maybe they do. Maybe they don't. Unless I'm iffy on show, the review isn't going to make me go or stop me if I plan on going. I only look at a review before I see a movie or show if I'm unsure. I'm seeing The Sorcerer's Apprentice whatever the reviews. I went to Alice withut reading the reviews. Same for Sweeney Todd (I like Tim Burton's movies)) However, usually one is going to find all the Daily Show videos one wants at the Daily Show site & if Viacom wanted for some godforsaken reason to post Colbert or Daily Show clips on YouTube, I'd think they'd use a log-on of Viacom or Colbert or Daily Show. The average employee at a company will not have the ability to post squat. I work for the government & I can't even say what Department. Any press-worthy incident, we are all reminded about the existence of a PR person in the department thru which all official comments are made. This in mind, I know Funi guys come here, but I also know they're usually VERY careful what they say until they are given permission by a Higher Power at the company to speak. Some guy working as an engineer in the dub studio would likely lose his job for posting a clip from a title he worked on. I recall the man who played the Lone Ranger on TV, trying to hold onto that little bit of fame, wore a home-made mask after the show had ended & he was no longer of the proper physique to represent the hero. Should he have been allowed to continue appearing as The Lone Ranger? I see his side, but I also see more the other, that some old codger showing up at a mall as the Lone Ranger might disillusion the little tykes. I'd more respect the actor showing up to sign autographs for his old fans that trying to convince their kids he actually was the Lone Ranger.
SoCal born & bred. I don't mean the gunfights even. More one came out here to get away from one's past & The Big City & blind eyes were turned to some things. What went on behind closed doors, so long as it wasn't illegal, was no one else's business. You helped your neighbors, but you didn't pry. Who knew who you had been in Chicago after you moved to San Diego or San Bernardino? I understand the only reason we got that statutory rape law we have is one of our governors had a taste for young flesh so his enemies drew up the law against having sex with minors even if it means the minor is just 1 year under the legal limit.
Isn't that called product placement? I was sort of shocked when I first heard of it back in the '80's, but it actually made sense. I don't think my mother brought me up to buy a product just because some star was using it or pitching it. Can't really think of ever wanting to buy a product other than for wanting it. Granted, as a child I remember the commercials probably seemed cool all moving & talking, but I think I figured out pretty quick Barbie didn't do those things at home.
God. FUNI!!!! I count my collection by # of dvds, not titles. DBZ has me totally screwed up because I bought all that stuff in the first half of the decade-on. But to get the originally cut/dub only one needed to buy this new set! No, we're switching to sets instead of individual dvds! It'll be cheaper! Here-re-buy half the DB set you have since we're finally issuing the first season uncut & with the dub. Same for Case Closed. I have 2 of the first disc & the new Season 4 is different from the 4 they sold me originally-same for 5. It's their bat & ball. If I want it bad enough, I buy it. I could do without. There's too much in this world to do to worry about the chapter of Bleach that came out in Japan last week.
I remember this. I grew up with Dittos & Xeroxes--no, Xerox is a company-you must call them copy machines. I believe at a certain level people don't care & it actually turns into a negative such as the SuperBowl this last year. Yes, The SuperBowl is protected or whatever, but I'm going to call it the SuperBowl & not whatever they want non-license holders to call it. Same for "You're Fired" or any of that stuff-real or fake. I recall the paper shortage from my youth making such an impact, yet now people insist it wasn't real? People were hoarding toilet paper & we got school memos on half-sheets of paper over a joke? But that has squat to do with someone not bearing the blessing of Viz posting Nartuto eps in the US. Whether the eps have been released in English or not, we know Viz has the right to distribute Naruto & Bleach in the US & Bleach Abridged or Funny Naruto Redub isn't sanctioned. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Only the illegal ones are illegal. Copyright, patent, trademarks, are all government granted monopolies, based on the rationale of the specific public benefit of that specific benefit that is greater than the general public disadvantages: in the case of copyright and patent rights, a specific term monopoly in order to encourage the creation of news creative works and development of new ways of doing things, in the case of trademark, in order to allow buyers to form judgements regarding the makers of specific product lines so that the reputation of the holder of the trademark is at stake with the quality of the products that are sold under the trademark. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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I don't know how to talk to you anymore, agila61. Here you are, posting exactly what I stated, and you're still disagreeing. By the way, just checked the official Viz website: Naruto is not trademarked. Moving on...
Honestly, it wasn't. But Google didn't track the kid. The law did. Google merely handed over an IP address. What if that IP address went to an employee of the studio rather than a 14 year old kid? No way to know.
I understand your logic, but let's look at something here: Toradora DVD has ghosting (ANN Anime Thread) Now, the static images could be interpreted two ways: The author got damn lucky to pause to pretend to ghost or he's a valid statement. Should the author post the videos, there is no dispute. This link is a great example why clips should, and are, inclusive in fair use. Now, if only we can rid the DMCA's bull of stripping away our legal rights to obtain them. Oh, and for the record, I would stand on my own two feet. But unfortunately, there's this situation in which two parties could effectively create similar works. If one should register first, punish the other? Screw that.
Now you do. 
Young lady, you certainly put a smile on my face with this one. 
Fair use states otherwise. It all depends on how Little Johnny uses the clip and the manga, and how a court determines if the usage and the amount of content constitute this fair use.
Not to nitpick, but how did "porn buying" go to "TRSI viewing"? I don't see a minor buying anything from TRSI on the same grounds.
Silly girl. It's a male cat. He's after porn and nothing else. Be thankful he can't buy it. 
As for your next segment, you of all people know that just because employees aren't told to talk doesn't mean they'll keep their mouth shut. Just ask Justin and Zac, who've confirmed a few drinks will get a FUNi guy to spill his beans.
Yep, it sure is, but with a little bit of a twist. Instead of the show physically panning toward the product, making it stand out, the product is actually used within the show. Apple did this with some show nobody watches with its latest product. Rather than focus around the product, the series used it. Transformers did this as well. These examples showed customers didn't mind the placement, but also saw the "ad" (per surveys). Old school placement isn't going to work. How to do it badly? Google up the replies from the "Stride" episode of Smallville. The fans were not pleased.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears they asked you to play baseball but instead screwed you over to play basketball. Now granted, this isn't an everyday issue, but weren't you mad? I'm still not happy I had to repurchase my movies on DVD from VHS. What, because it's a different format? Screw that. An artist doesn't deserve payments from a single source of content when the medium changes and I don't give a damn what they think they're entitled to. Clarification: video to video, book to comic. Just in case someone comes in and says "But DVD and Video are different mediums!" Well, I don't like that either, but reality says one's usually based on the other, so they're not identical works. k? |
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Rime of the Ancient Otaku
 Posts: 124 |
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 This came from two things: my earlier confusion of Copyright vs. Trademark and that all Lucas trademarked was the term "droid"--which I have no trouble giving him first dibs at.
...and apparently Android isn't a freebie either... |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Only if you're going into the cell phone market. Nothing stopping you from making an Android beverage company. Hey, make it taste like oil and you would probably sell millions because people love stupid things like this. Hold on a sec... need to feed my pet rock. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Hey look, here's some actual news on the subject-
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/book-news/comics/article/43672-manga-publishers-face-uphill-battle-against-scanlations.html Basically, Aggregators are facing consequences, and when they try to avoid them, fans and companies have noticed. Pretty funny stuff regarding MangaFox too. PW collects a lot of info already made known via twitter, blogs like manga.about.com and mangablog, but adds some reactions from publishers. It does sound like an uphill battle, but it seems like they should have an okay time knocking down the aggregators considering a lot has occured in just a few weeks. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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It's already too late. Digital lockers are now replacing aggregator websites, and their use is exploding. What makes it more difficult for the gatekeepers is gaining access to these lockers, because the key is in control of those who upload the content. You see, it's a losing battle. For every step the industry takes, the "pirates" are already two ahead. Though, I'm sure people aren't going to mind another increase in manga prices to pay for all these battles. Funny, given an employee from Vertical asked the question if a $15 print-on-demand title is justified. The way things are going, manga prices will hit this regardless. The PW article was an interesting read. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Still shots are an interesting grey area. We all use them for our icons & stuff, but I note in Japan they consider that to be infringement. I was working on the Wild Wild West set I got for my birthday so all the anime I've been getting has piked up for the last month & I'm still only halfway thru WWW (28 eps per season-originally an hour long show) so I was pleased to see my Persona set arrive, but now I am very worried... Anyway, I think the issue is stills are not the moving images from the anime & even shots from a manga are sliced & diced for framing purposes. That gorgeous half-page or quarter panel probably has a bunch of less framable shots around it so one will likely cut it before using as one's wallpaper. However, there is the issue of stealing. My daughter knew a few classmates when she was still in High School who would claim they had drawn art by other people. Amazing they would think they'd get away with it. There is a dif between a kid plastering Naruto stills all over his Facebook page & posting the actual show on YouTube. In fact, there would be issue if he thought he had the right to post the mange online. I picked up a 500G drive to back up my cds with the next project being the boxes of lps in the garage that never get played because no one has turntables anymore. Yeah, I'm sure the record companies think I should buy them all again, but if I have the ability to convert to mp3, I'm going for it. Not to mention, some of the bands were 1 hit wonder metal bands that I don't believe made it much past the cut bins at Wherehouse. It would be nice to be able to do the same easily for movies to dvd from VHS, but I've always heard that's rather daunting. The issue at heart here is that old Disney/Sony ruling one has the right of personal use & the claim I keep hearing I have the right to make a back-up copy for myself. That does not mean I can post my back-up files online with the intent that total strangers can copy them for their use. I only have rights extending to myself & my family viewing. I know the manga shop in the valley keeps telling me to scan my manga & sell them the hard copies, but I don't like reading manga on a computer screen, though it looks like we're getting there & it'll be a must in the future. Basically I think it comes down to a reasonable fan use vs an unreasonable fan use. I think Japan is a bit restrictive not allowing for some image sharing. A fan making a page honoring their favirite title is one thing. Nothing I've heard about fansub sites (outside the yaoi sites which mostly seem very much in the promoting a title/take down as soon as it's licensed) suggest they are in it for spreading the glory that is manga or anime any longer. They're looking for the glory & fame of being first up, or best translation, or most hits, etc. Continuing to translate a title like Bleach is not spreading the word of Bleach because Bleach is licensed & available in the US. Pick up another title no one's heard about.
Fair use states otherwise. It all depends on how Little Johnny uses the clip and the manga, and how a court determines if the usage and the amount of content constitute this fair use.
He's getting snipped in August. Hopefully that will nip it in the bud. Maybe not. I'm hoping being a eunich will keep that cute little squeaky meow he has now.
Spilling the beans talking to someone as McChrystal did is one thing. McChrystal posting the plans to the next attack online would have been another. Wasn't there some guy who got in trouble over leaking video of civilians getting killed? People in these situations know what they can & cannot do. Getting drunk & talking to Zac is one thing. Getting drunk & posting an entire season of a series online without the company's say probably means one will be job hunting soon.
But the reasonable reaction is to get mad at Funi & swear to never buy their product again, just not buy that product, or buy it grudgingly. Our movie companies do it all the time. My daughter had to run out & buy Avatar the day it came out even though she knows there's some super delux Director's box due out around August she intends to buy. I love Dogma, but I didn't buy any of the special editions they put out after I bought my copy, though I was perturbed they did that. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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You said that it wasn't a monopoly on the trademark, or copyright (or, I presume, patent). That's simply wrong and so I corrected you. I don't even have to appeal to an outside source on that as I would have to on a legal question - that is a technical term in my own field of economics. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Right here is the crux of the problem, CCSYueh. There is no difference. The problem is, the industry says it's okay here, but not there, so they're causing confusion which circumvents the very laws they enacted. Where do you suppose those Naruto pics come from? Let's say Viz uploaded them to their official website. Someone comes along, copies, and posts elsewhere. Then, someone else gets creative and turns it into a dancing avatar. Does it hurt financially? Probably not, which is why they don't care. Now, Little Johnny thinks it's okay to do Naruto pics, so now he does a digital art designer's wallpaper they're trying to sell at $0.99. The gray line becomes so obscure, these tend to increase in explosiveness. Even the very industry causes this confusion when they upload their legal wares to sites hosting illegal content. No one knows anymore. Sure, I get the gist of full episodes, but guess what? Crunchyroll was an illegal site once too. Someone hits FUNimation's website, captures the videos, then spreads them around is now no different than stripping the thing off the DVD. There simply is no stopping it now. Well, there is, and that is artists keep their works to themselves from now on.
Only if you don't circumvent security to make that backup. The industry's solution: put that security on everything. Yeah, people don't like this idea, so they're going to pirate to remove it.
I'm nitpicking, but you don't have rights. This is proven more every day. When Amazon pulled "1984" from Kindle readers, this went well beyond what rights we have. Buy a PS3 for the "Other OS" feature? Gone. Just like our "rights". See how that digital file law gets tricky? Crap like this is growing every day.
You're absolutely right. So why do these industries insist on fighting the inevitable? Boggles my mind.
Not. He's male. It's always on the mind, whether he gets it or not.
Thankfully, no, but let's just say the military wised up and realized putting the press in action was a very, very, very stupid thing to do to begin with. I'm a veteran, and this even pissed me off. The ones who got punished were the ones who should have been punished, all the way up to the White House.
You see, this is exactly my approach to music and movies. I don't buy them nor do I download them. Explain how this helps "the artists"? It doesn't. In fact, my solution is the worst possible outcome moreso than those who read for free! Why? Because any potential to get me to buy is lost. Those who read for free are potential targets to buy. I am the industry's worst fear: the lost sale. To get me back, you best believe they'll bow to me while apologizing. Until then, everything they get... they deserve.
That's called instilling value, and truthfully, it's being over-used. The downside is those who do feel shafted. Why does a better product even have to come out later? Why not give it first? This is one of the reasons I actually stopped buying movies! I got sick of seeing a better version come out later, after I already bought it. This type of action isn't fair to consumers. Double-dipping. Yes, this will certainly save them all. 
Though I will point out this example is exactly what I've been saying: content sells products.  People gull, er, happy to do this are exactly who the industry banks on. People like me, they've a way to go. I don't fall for trinkets.
No, agila61. I said they can't use copyright to create a monopoly. In other words, they can't use their copyrights to bully out competing businesses. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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Only if they keep refusing to join the late 20th century and release their material in digital form. If they expect to make back 100% of their costs through volume releases alone, then sure, it'll be a deathspiral in which they have to keep charging their customers more and more, while the readership gets less and less, so they have to charge more and more, etc. If, on the other hand, they gather what braincells they keep between their couch cushions and actually start releasing their manga online, where people want it, then it can offset most of the licensing and editing costs of the manga, and they can just charge a minimal profit margin on top of cost for the volume releases themselves. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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The statement of a Vertical rep stated the manga print-on-demand has a cost of $6 to print. I've been dying to ask where the hell the other $9 went, but refrained. When these publishers are charging $5.99 for a digital download, they've effectively just killed themselves. This isn't competing against piracy. It's giving people more of a reason to head to it. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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.....it costs 6 bucks to print it with print on demand- this is money that goes to the printer. That is the cost of the printing *itself*. Where the hades does the other 9 bucks go? To pay the publisher, the translator, the artist, the japanese publisher, the editor, the letterer, the retouch artist, etc. I imagine they wanted a little more profit per volume since POD requires just as much work as a mass-produced print run, but with likely lower sales since it's a mailorder item produced on demand. Also, a 5.99 Ebook is pretty standard/not expensive given the prices for most kindle prose books. What do you expect publishers and creators to live on? Warm fuzzies? Warm fuzzies are pretty hard to live on. Being expected to live on them makes people not want to make stuff. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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If that's what you intended to say, as opposed to what you actually said then, except for being false, fine. A copyright is intended to allow the creator of the work to be able to bully out competing producers of the work who produce it without permission. |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Since you're showing once again you obviously show no clue as to how the publishing world works let me break it down for you: $9.99 (actual retail price of manga) – Bookstore pays $6.40 which goes to printing, publisher salaries and royalties – $3.59 goes to the book seller who has to pay for rent, inventory bills, etc. $15.99 retail of POD – $6 dollars to print – $5 dollars for producing - Bookstore pays $11 for the book and makes a profit of $4.99 Like Paploo pointed out, the 6 dollars is the PoD cost of printing a book. My bookstore deals with the occasional print on demand book, and they’re at least 15$ retail. Why? Because it’s a book not printed in a massive printing, which is cheaper. It costs money to get that printer going only to produce a single book. That’s justified as six dollars. Next you have to pay everyone who brought that book into being which is an estimate at around five dollars in this case (again, massively printing books is CHEAP). That has your total brought up to a good 11 dollars. The extra 4.99? Goes to the retailer who usually buys the book from the distributor/publisher at a 40-45% discount. If you do the math we, the retailers, are actually the ones getting the shaft here with our usual discount being taken away. In some cases with Print On Demand books the retailers are finding these books more expensive to buy with us getting no discount, so in order to make a profit we have to tack on a couple of bucks to the end price. It's what people in the business world do to make a profit. |
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