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NEWS: Sweden's Supreme Court Holds Trial for Translator's Child Pornography Charges


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Stark700



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 11591
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:46 pm Reply with quote
Oh wow, somewhat speechless about this.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9321
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:49 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Prosecutor Hedvig Trost argued during the proceedings that the images could be used to coerce a child into performing sexual acts, noting that "And even a drawing could be of a real child. A photo depicting a real child could have been used to make the drawing. It is hard from the outside to know whether there is an original photo or not."


Yes, and I murder real human beings when I play Call of Duty.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:54 pm Reply with quote
Not this bullshit again.

Drawings. Are. Not. Real. People.

Why do so many judiciary systems have trouble realizing this?
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:00 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Lundström has translated more than 80 volumes in two series for the publisher Bonnier Carlsen in the last decade. However, after the Uppsala ruling in June 2010, Bonnier Carlsen ended its working relationship with Lundström.


WTF! Shouldn't they be going after the publisher for this? Wasn't the guy working for this Bonnier Carlsen?
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ScruffyKiwi



Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 575
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:01 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Not this bullshit again.

Drawings. Are. Not. Real. People.

Why do so many judiciary systems have trouble realizing this?


Quite frankly it doesn't matter. Like simulated rape videos, lolicon images are just illegal in most western countries and you have to get over it.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3747
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:03 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Not this bullshit again.

Drawings. Are. Not. Real. People.

Why do so many judiciary systems have trouble realizing this?


I agree however with you chagen, however we don't know what material he was arrested for. If the scanlator was busted for doing some of rustles work then I can understand that frame of mind, from a mainstream person. Look up his art-work some time to see what i am talking about.
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chrisb



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 456
Location: TX, USA
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:06 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
On Tuesday, Björn Sellström, a criminal inspector of Sweden's National Bureau of Investigation's child pornography unit, wrote in the Svenska Dagbladet newspaper that the images should not be considered pornography, noting that he was "doubtful of how a conviction would benefit those children who are actually suffering from real abuse which is being documented."


Finally someone said it.
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Zin5ki
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:12 pm Reply with quote
With respect to the legal expenses this trial will doubtlessly accrue, one wonders whether an analogue to the CBLDF exists within the court's jurisdiction.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4628
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:16 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
On Tuesday, Björn Sellström, a criminal inspector of Sweden's National Bureau of Investigation's child pornography unit, wrote in the Svenska Dagbladet newspaper that the images should not be considered pornography, noting that he was "doubtful of how a conviction would benefit those children who are actually suffering from real abuse which is being documented."


This says it all. The Swedish government is proceeding anyway, because it wants to set a precedent. By succeeding, they can bend laws to their interpretation, and receive affirmation for their interpretation from a court of law.

Which is why our federal government went after Handley, even after discovering they were in error about actual child pornography, and also prosecutor disdain for actually admitting they made a mistake.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:29 pm Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
Quote:
On Tuesday, Björn Sellström, a criminal inspector of Sweden's National Bureau of Investigation's child pornography unit, wrote in the Svenska Dagbladet newspaper that the images should not be considered pornography, noting that he was "doubtful of how a conviction would benefit those children who are actually suffering from real abuse which is being documented."


This says it all. The Swedish government is proceeding anyway, because it wants to set a precedent. By succeeding, they can bend laws to their interpretation, and receive affirmation for their interpretation from a court of law.

Which is why our federal government went after Handley, even after discovering they were in error about actual child pornography, and also prosecutor disdain for actually admitting they made a mistake.


Okay, this case is stupid but we REALLY don't need the Libertarian tin foil hat "GOV'MENT OUT TO GET US" conspiracy theories.
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Surrender Artist



Joined: 01 May 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:30 pm Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
Quote:
On Tuesday, Björn Sellström, a criminal inspector of Sweden's National Bureau of Investigation's child pornography unit, wrote in the Svenska Dagbladet newspaper that the images should not be considered pornography, noting that he was "doubtful of how a conviction would benefit those children who are actually suffering from real abuse which is being documented."


This says it all. The Swedish government is proceeding anyway, because it wants to set a precedent. By succeeding, they can bend laws to their interpretation, and receive affirmation for their interpretation from a court of law.


I'm not sure if that's really an applicable rationale in this case. Sweden is a civil law jurisdiction. Civil law tradition holds that only the legislature can make laws, so precedent tends not to be as binding in jurisdictions that use it rather than Common Law.

I don't know the particulars of Swedish judicial practice, but if I had to make a competing guess, it would be that the Swedish prosecutors think that they can win and don't want to miss a chance to put another mark in that column.

Otherwise, I believe that Mr. Sellström is right. Things like this always feel more like misdirected moral panic than trying to correct harm.
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Yttrbio
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Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:34 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Quote:
Prosecutor Hedvig Trost argued during the proceedings that the images could be used to coerce a child into performing sexual acts, noting that "And even a drawing could be of a real child. A photo depicting a real child could have been used to make the drawing. It is hard from the outside to know whether there is an original photo or not."


Yes, and I murder real human beings when I play Call of Duty.
Strictly speaking, the analogy would be that Call of Duty animations could have been made by murdering people in motion capture suits, and you can't really prove that it wasn't, so...

Quote:
During the trial, Lundström's laywer brought in several expert witnesses, including University of Gävle comics researcher Johan Höjer. "These are not real people," Höjer said.
An interesting theory...
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5284
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:41 pm Reply with quote
ScruffyKiwi wrote:
Chagen46 wrote:
Not this bullshit again.

Drawings. Are. Not. Real. People.

Why do so many judiciary systems have trouble realizing this?


Quite frankly it doesn't matter. Like simulated rape videos, lolicon images are just illegal in most western countries and you have to get over it.
Because the laws are always right in western countries? Oh wait..they're not always right at all. Such as gay marriage. And in some middle eastern countries it's illegal for women to do pretty much anything....definitely doesn't make it right just because it's a law somewhere in the world. this is about kids being harmed or not harmed
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FinalArcadia



Joined: 16 May 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Southern USA
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:54 pm Reply with quote
This is really the stupidest thing I've ever seen. There's nothing better for the Supreme Court in Sweden to be hearing than this case? Nothing more urgent, pressing, or, you know, SERIOUS?

He could use the pictures to coerce kids? He could probably do that with candy, too. Is candy illegal to have now as well?
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Mad_Scientist
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:00 pm Reply with quote
FinalArcadia wrote:
This is really the stupidest thing I've ever seen. There's nothing better for the Supreme Court in Sweden to be hearing than this case? Nothing more urgent, pressing, or, you know, SERIOUS?

He could use the pictures to coerce kids? He could probably do that with candy, too. Is candy illegal to have now as well?


Actually, given that his conviction was upheld by the lower court, I'd say it is quite important for the Supreme Court to hear the case. That is of course assuming they intend to overturn his conviction.
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