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ANNCast - Super Manga Pals Kick Back


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ABCBTom



Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 183

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:30 pm Reply with quote
Great podcast, with a lot of good discussion.

However, I take issue with the idea that Viz isn't releasing seinen and josei because there's no money in it.

Viz has released a bunch of seinen and josei digitally, titles with absolutely no history of success:

Children of the Sea, Gente, House of Five Leaves, I'll Give It My All Tomorrow, not simple, Oishinbo A la carte, Ristorante Paradiso, Saturn Apartments, Solanin, What a Wonderful World

Great titles. But they did not sell.

What are not available digitally?

Biomega, Black Lagoon, Bokurano: Ours, Detroit Metal City, Dogs, Dorohedoro, Ikigami, Jormungand, 20th Century Boys, Monster, Pluto, Real, Tenjo Tenge, Vagabond.

Why would Viz sell Oishinbo over Tenjo Tenge, which actually sells?

The thing all of the bottom titles have in common are explicit violence and sex.

Some say it's a rights issue. But SigIkki has all of its titles available on the web. Dorohedoro can be read on the web. So the web is fine, but eReaders are not?

Maybe so, but it's an interesting coincidence that adult titles are missing from platforms notorious for having unclear yet stringent content restrictions.


Last edited by ABCBTom on Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3044

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:38 pm Reply with quote
Neither Ed Sizemore nor Deb Aoki have read Rurouni Kenshin? Wow, I mean that is really shocking, from what I have seen of Rurouni Kenshin Cinema version (which is presumably based on the script of the movie) the artwork looks similar to what it was in the Jinchuu arc.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:10 pm Reply with quote
Shounen, shoujo, seinen, and josei aren't 'genres', they're age demographics.

Genre would be action, comedy, romance, and so forth.

That's why you can have two shounen be completely different (Naruto and Sket Dance) or seinen (K-ON and Berserk)
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3044

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:44 pm Reply with quote
The problem with tech blogs is that a lot of them are pro-piracy because Anti-piracy is "restricting the internet and the internet must be free", so they would just yell it you for being some idiot who just wants to let "old media" stay the same and prevent new media from "revolutionizing entertainment".
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Soundmonkey44



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 1243

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:48 pm Reply with quote
listening to the cast right now, pretty good so far. Also agree with Deb, sometimes you just wanna slap the fans who try to find any reason to complain. Give the companies props when they deserve it people.

Although the light-jabs at shonen are abit snooty sounding. But meh, I can't deny that they are right, stuff like that selling well can help the Grade A steak get over. Urwasawa & Tezuka do indeed taste better then long running shonen. Even though admitingly I personally like the Shonen Hamburger just as much as the grade A Steak.
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ewsizemore



Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 29
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:28 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight- Sorry. I watched the first 2 seasons of the anime and that satisfied me for Kenshin.

TitanXL-I agree, but they get treated as genre by many, if not most, manga fans.

Soundmonkey44- Sorry, didn't mean to sound snobbish. I've been keeping up with One Piece and Bakuman. So I do like shonen.
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Melanchthon



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 550
Location: Northwest from Here

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:29 pm Reply with quote
I can not comprehend why anyone would ever use a scanalation. How do you know the scanners are telling the truth? They could mistranslated, made up or changed for 'comedic' effect, and you'd never know, since you can't see the original. I trust real companies, since they have contracts and professionals and stuff, but how can you trust Some Guy on the Internet?
And as a pirate, I have a certain sense of honor. A cowed, crabbed sense, perhaps, weak and deformed, but a sense none the less. Sure, I have lots of raw manga filling up my gigabytes, but I have hundreds of dollars worth on my shelves as well (including some books imported from Japan, that cost as much to ship per volume as it did to buy). If it's licensed and I like it, I buy the release, and encourage other to buy it as well. But the one unbreakable rule of fan piracy is to never make money off of it. These pirate apps makers are the scum of the earth, and anyone that buys from them is little better.

And I take umbrage at Inebriated Batman's comment that (nearly) all manga is hamburger. The delta between two random manga franchises is orders of magnitude from that of two random Marvel franchises. Sure, most of it is Generic Shounen Fight Club, Seinen Underage Ero-Comedy, or Shoujo Rape-Fantasy, but manga has those special outliers that we like to talk about. Superheroes-- eh, not so much.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3549
Location: Louisville, KY

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:34 pm Reply with quote
Well this was a very interesting podcast and brought up several decent points with the western manga today. Yeah the amount of illegal manga apps that are out their is a tad overwhelming however it is not something you can easily stamp out due to 3rd party apps you can install that do not have to be screened out by apples or android's ToS.

There is no excuse for me to have any scanlations around due to the ethics as stated, however I am just not comfortable importing KNJ to the states with the huge crack down on such titles/genre. Maybe I really should and take a gamble a there becasue I want to show my support but that's whole different issue. Well Anyways thank you zac, Debi and everyone else for a great podcast this week.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 8551

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:42 pm Reply with quote
On the subject of libraries, I do have some old manga I should see about donating, but they're not complete sets. I suppose a single volume 1 and no continuation is better than volumes 1, 2, 15, 34-36 like mine has with Ah! My Goddess. What I do use my library for is their nice selection of DVDs, including some anime films and a small number of TV series. The building is close to where I live and I believe I had an unlimited number of DVDs I can check out at one time (granted they're 1 week rentals), so perusing their stock for films to check out has been quite fulfilling. Whenever I go, it's clear that the DVD catalog is what draws other patrons in as well, so having high DVD rentals must be justifying a budget to spend more on collecting them, new, old, and Criterion alike. How about instead of just donating manga, perhaps donating some old anime DVDs you've grown out of favor with? Like I remember how Justin said he had too many DVDs and he was just going to toss them (I'm sure he had by now), but donating them is the best way to put those discs to use for a very long time for hundreds of other people. I'm assuming those were printed discs and not burned, of course. Maybe libraries across the county just don't have DVD shelves yet? I don't see many people bringing this up in discussion, is it because I live in a much more affluent area? Maybe you can start one at your library by dumping some old DVDs, anime or otherwise, that you no longer need.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:43 pm Reply with quote
Melanchthon wrote:
I can not comprehend why anyone would ever use a scanalation. How do you know the scanners are telling the truth? They could mistranslated, made up or changed for 'comedic' effect, and you'd never know, since you can't see the original. I trust real companies, since they have contracts and professionals and stuff, but how can you trust Some Guy on the Internet?


Because the scanlators aren't in it to make money (outside those pirate apps mentioned), so they don't have to worry about 'mainstream appeal'.

Viz edits their manga in order to sell it more. They edit out smoking and drinking in a lot of series (Naruto, Hikaru no Go) they edit out homosexual scenes in some series (Naruto), and religious references in some series (Fullmetal Alchemist), changing names because they think American kids are too stupid to understand Japanese (Detective Conan, Pocket Monsters, Yu-Gi-Oh) all for the sake of maximizing profit. Throw in what CMX did (Tenjo Tenge), Dark Horse did (Narutaru), and various other companies as well.

Meanwhile, scanlators don't have to worry about making money, so they can give you the manga it is. Original names, original content that can be as controversial as it wants, and they don't have to worry about Little Billy's mom finding out two guys buttsexing it up in their son's Shounen Jump manga and then start a protest to ban the filth. A lot of the times with series, it's a very 'for the fans, FROM the fans' approach, so you know they're not going to mess it up on purpose.

You question why people resort to scanlators, I question why people openly support edited and altered manga. And I hope no one dismisses editing manga as 'psch, typical manga fans always finding something to complain about' like they would someone who says they pirate for 'but the Viz one is 2 weeks later! I can't wait!"


Last edited by TitanXL on Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Rigamortis-chan



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:43 pm Reply with quote
Good episode. I take it the 90s episode is next week?
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7310
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:53 pm Reply with quote
Rigamortis-chan wrote:
Good episode. I take it the 90s episode is next week?


Next week is Game Show 3 with Todd, Dave and Joel.

Revenge of the 90s will take place the weeks of June 10th and June 17th.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 8551

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:54 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Meanwhile, scanlators don't have to worry about making money, so they can give you the manga it is. Original names, original content that can be as controversial as it wants, and they don't have to worry about Little Billy's mom finding out two guys buttsexing it up in their son's Shounen Jump manga and then start a protest to ban the filth. A lot of the times with series, it's a very 'for the fans, FROM the fans' approach, so you know they're not going to mess it up on purpose.

You question why people resort to scanlators, I question why people openly support edited and altered manga. And I hope no one dismisses editing manga as 'psch, typical manga fans always finding something to complain about' like they would someone who says they pirate for 'but the Viz one is 2 weeks later! I can't wait!"


Sometimes you can enjoy scanlator manga for the different voice that translator can impart upon the work. Maybe this doesn't happen in normal manga, but I do it see in hentai works due to how fast translations from multiple people, even for the same short stories, are released. You can really see how some translators take liberal or literal approaches and what their methodologies are for names, honorifics, and speech patterns. About names, I'm the type that prefers to use whatever the name in the text is, or as close to it.

On the topic of short stories versus long novels, I'm with Ed. It's always why I've dug oneshot 40 minutes OVAs that tell a nice quick story and have really good budgets. They're easy to digest and analyze before moving on to the next one. Some of my favorite anime are single OVAs or short films.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3044

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:17 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Melanchthon wrote:
I can not comprehend why anyone would ever use a scanalation. How do you know the scanners are telling the truth? They could mistranslated, made up or changed for 'comedic' effect, and you'd never know, since you can't see the original. I trust real companies, since they have contracts and professionals and stuff, but how can you trust Some Guy on the Internet?


Because the scanlators aren't in it to make money (outside those pirate apps mentioned), so they don't have to worry about 'mainstream appeal'.

Viz edits their manga in order to sell it more. They edit out smoking and drinking in a lot of series (Naruto, Hikaru no Go) they edit out homosexual scenes in some series (Naruto), and religious references in some series (Fullmetal Alchemist), changing names because they think American kids are too stupid to understand Japanese (Detective Conan, Pocket Monsters, Yu-Gi-Oh) all for the sake of maximizing profit. Throw in what CMX did (Tenjo Tenge), Dark Horse did (Narutaru), and various other companies as well.

Meanwhile, scanlators don't have to worry about making money, so they can give you the manga it is. Original names, original content that can be as controversial as it wants, and they don't have to worry about Little Billy's mom finding out two guys buttsexing it up in their son's Shounen Jump manga and then start a protest to ban the filth. A lot of the times with series, it's a very 'for the fans, FROM the fans' approach, so you know they're not going to mess it up on purpose.

You question why people resort to scanlators, I question why people openly support edited and altered manga. And I hope no one dismisses editing manga as 'psch, typical manga fans always finding something to complain about' like they would someone who says they pirate for 'but the Viz one is 2 weeks later! I can't wait!"


The religious reference in FMA was one scene where a cross shaped block of stone was changed. FMA is my favorite manga and I could care less because the scene makes no sense from a symbolic point of view (whereas in the rest of the manga religion is generally well done).

I am not going to deprive Viz, Square Enix, and Hiromu Arakawa money because of a meaningless edit.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:30 pm Reply with quote
What about their constant mis-translations? They keep calling Xerxes 'Cselkcess' despite other language editions of the series and every fanscan calling it Xerxes, as well as the mountain of evidence to suggest the other; a quick Google search could have confirmed it for them. They do it in quite a number of series. My point is just because they're the 'professionals' doesn't make them competent or the best choice.
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