Forum - View topicThe Shonen Jump Stigma
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IncompetentOverlord
 Posts: 139 |
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As a new anime/manga fan, I have seen that, though Shonen Jump titles seem to be the overall most popular set of titles on the market, it seems that they have a large set of detractors who decry literally all of them as being derivative and stupid. While it is true that a large portion of the SJ line is derivative trash, it has gotten to the point where a lot of the respectable anime viewing community(IE Not screaming teenagers) won't touch anything with SJ on the spine. I think that this is a shame, as there are several titles that I think that demographic would enjoy such as Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and The Fist of the North Star in that magazine's library. Could it just be the disdain for popular things that some of the anime viewing public naturally has due to being largely a counterculture? Or could it be that those titles are aimed at mainly 8-14 year olds and they deduce that this means a decline in quality? Please Discuss.
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mglittlerobin
 Posts: 1071 |
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Well, I love One Piece, and that's an SJ title, albeit, I've never read the manga for it. I also enjoy Bleach a lot, but the manga authors do have a tendency to take too long to finished. my favorite mangaka, Hiromu Arakawa, author of Fullmetal Alchemist is finally finishing her story after NINE YEARS! I don't like the fact that Shonen Jump titles tend to drag on forever, even Clamp just finished Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle. I prefer author's who have or are close to finishing their work.
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Drmke
 Posts: 14 Location: Tennessee |
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You're that Shonen Jump titles are, for the most part, aimed at a younger audience. But overall, most are still good stories, some are simply amazing. Some manga tend to set ridiculously high standards for the more popular manga and criticize them non-stop for their flaws. Some people do just like to hate things lots of people like, but most seem to just believe the stigma that all SJ titles are crap. Give manga a try instead of judging it before reading; you will be surprised more often than you think.
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Tamaria
 Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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SJ manga are like soap operas for boys. There's usually a big cast of characters making eachothers lives difficult, it goes on and on and doesn't always make much sense, but they can be very entertaining as long as you don't think too much about. Seriously, thinkng too much about SJ manga will probably just make you stupid.
I think that's why many older readers don't want to read these manga. There isn't much depth to them, reading these comics is no challenge at all. Older readers often prefer something with more substance and more mature characters. Those SJ teenagers aren't exactly easy to relate to if you're a jaded adult 
That said, it's also a shame there are people who don't want to try SJ manga for exactly those reasons. There is nothing wrong with some light reading and SJ manga can be very entertaining. |
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IncompetentOverlord
Posts: 139 |
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You see, I don't think that a lack of depth is the problem for most older readers. Alot of the time these fans watch slice-of-life series and super robot shows, both of which have far, far less depth. While the given explanation works for some people, I can't help but think that there is something more to it than that. Also, I would say that the shonen jump sports titles I've read do have some sort of depth, especially Slam Dunk.
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Tamaria
Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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I doubt there is an explanation what works for every older reader. Some can't relate to the characters anymore, some no longer have the patience for those long fights, some only care for series that can feed their nostalgia...
The nice thing about long series like the ones in Shounen Jump is that they can stay with you for years and years. It's very possible to grow up together with your favourite characters. Some like that a lot, other prefer shorter stories. But seriusly, you shouldn't read Shounen Jump if you want depth. I'm not saying there isn't any, but it's not the first place you'd go to look for it. It's magazine for teenage boys (and girls too). The normal is to grow up and move on to seinen (and josei?) manga. Not that's it's wrong for an adult to like Shounen Jump, but they're more likely to find series to their liking in anthologies made for an older audience. |
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IncompetentOverlord
Posts: 139 |
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Yes, I understand that 98% of all SJ titles never get even a bit deep, but all that I was saying was that there are a select few titles that descend below the surface(Though most of them are now in Ultra Jump, which is for older readers). I'm not saying that Naruto or Bleach or whatever is a deep philosophical work or anything. I read Tezuka and Urusawa for that.
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vashna
Posts: 1313 |
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I strongly disagree, though I do not mean to be disrespectful. I feel that Tite Kubo's Bleach is, in many ways, a comment on the impermanence of life. The principles of hollows swallowing other souls, for instance, suggests life's immediacy in my opinion. In fact, I have said before that reading Bleach probably would have taught some of my college classes Neo-Confucian and Zen philosophy a lot better than the extremely silly books we do read.
And of course I don't think anyone would disagree that Death Note had a good deal of depth with it. |
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Tamaria
Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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Yeah, that's nice. Last time I checked it was just yet another shounen manga in which people with spiritual powers beating up monsters and other, usually evil, people with spiritual powers.
Death Note is great series, but it's also kind of a Shounen Jump antithesis. Lots of text, the main character is an evil bastard, people dying left and right, no fight scenes and manly tears... |
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IncompetentOverlord
Posts: 139 |
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Yeah, I pretty much agree. Bleach is just another solid fighting show and Death Note(As well as it's contemporary Hikaru no Go) are part of that small 2% of SJ titles that get deep.
Can we get back on topic now? Please? |
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vashna
Posts: 1313 |
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I am heartfully sorry. I didn't mean to insult anyone.
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I don't think you insulted anyone, and if anything you gave me a new point of view in looking at Bleach. I never really thought of it like how you stated, but then again I've never seriously studied Zen philosophy. I had a similar experience in regards to Buddhism and how often various themes and lessons found their way into Naruto, as well as a lot of Chinese astrology. Every now and then I'm pleasantly surprised when various philosophical debates pop up. I know it's not completely brain stimulating, but I can't help but be impressed when I recall it's a comic targeting 12 year old kids. The comics I grew up on barely touched anything controversial or educational. Personally I think the shonen jump stigma is the fact it does mainly target 12 year old boys, and the fact that the majority of their titles are fighting stories. I rarely read anything past a few volumes if it turns out to be a fighting manga. |
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IncompetentOverlord
Posts: 139 |
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Well, the part about it being targeted at 12 year olds is true, but them being mostly fighting stories? Nah. At least half of SJ's output is Sports, Game, Harem, and Gag stories with a few things like Death Note put in for diversity. It is true that the super popular titles are generally fighting, but you can't ignore the others. The latest chapters of Bleach and One Piece only take up so much space, you know.
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Genten
 Posts: 71 Location: A Mitten (Michigan) |
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I think the stigma towards Shounen Jump series stems not from its depth, but from the fact that it's just cool to hate what's popular (a point you made in the OP but was never discussed).
There isn't a problem with escapist entertainment, which is what most of SJ is, and the fact that Naruto and Bleach are like this is fine. However, when you add the fact that both of these series are immensely popular, many fans begin crying out that 'they're wastses of time and money' and that 'there's so much the world of anime has to offer so why spend time on this crap'. I can't count the number of times I've seen someone declare "I liked Naruto before it was popular but then I dropped it" or "I liked xxx until I realized it was stupid". Basically, once something becomes popular most fans forget what the series was originally about and begin derailing it for something it never aimed to accomplish in the first place. Or at least, this is the majority opinion on the the various boards I go to, where the population is mostly in the teen range. I don't know if it's a trend among older fans too. |
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Jaymie
Posts: 915 |
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I like it when authors take their time, especially when it's a monthly work. If a series actually GOES somewhere, like FMA and TRC did during their 26/28 volume runs, then I don't mind. But if a series is 57 volumes long and they are only half way to the treasure (One Piece), something's wrong. |
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