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INTEREST: Japanese Government's Part-Time Worker Anime Video Draws Criticism


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FenixFiesta



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:53 am Reply with quote
This assumes an idyllic life where the full time employment company never folds, the worker doesn't get fired at an age where it would be difficult to start again at another full time job, and that the stress of full time work doesn't cause a mental break down of said worker.

There might be "roads well tread" in life, but that doesn't guarantee a truly secure future in any event.
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Greed1914



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:01 pm Reply with quote
FenixFiesta wrote:
This assumes an idyllic life where the full time employment company never folds, the worker doesn't get fired at an age where it would be difficult to start again at another full time job, and that the stress of full time work doesn't cause a mental break down of said worker.

There might be "roads well tread" in life, but that doesn't guarantee a truly secure future in any event.


Agreed. What it says about subsisting on part-time work isn't totally inaccurate, but the "solution" of becoming a salaryman/woman assumes everything falls into place, and also leaves out what those companies expect in return. It comes off a lot like being told that going to college is the key to a good job with plenty of income.
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relyat08



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:21 pm Reply with quote
Considering how unhappy and unfulfilled many "company workers" are, I don't really see how that's a better option. I quit the most normal job I ever had because it was basically slavery. I can imagine it's similar, or even worse there, based on every article and portrayal in media, that I've seen/read. The whole salaryman thing is certainly not a preferable way to go.
Also, people need to do part-time jobs too. Those are pretty necessary for the economy and society. Maybe instead of trying to guilt people who are interested in a slightly unorthodox lifestyle and career, they should work on getting rid of school rules that prohibit students from working them.
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Greed1914



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:45 pm Reply with quote
relyat08 wrote:
Considering how unhappy and unfulfilled many "company workers" are, I don't really see how that's a better option. I quit the most normal job I ever had because it was basically slavery. I can imagine it's similar, or even worse there, based on every article and portrayal in media, that I've seen/read. The whole salaryman thing is certainly not a preferable way to go.
.


Which is why the message in the video is troubling. The part-timers seemed to be on the track to being company workers, but both stopped since they weren't convinced that they wanted that life. The company man wasn't telling them anything that most part-timers don't already know. It comes off more like the company worker is telling them to just give up on finding a job they want, and just join the "regular" workforce. Considering this came from the Japanese government, that probably is the overall idea they meant to convey.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:51 pm Reply with quote
Mindless wage-slaves are only happy when mindlessly slaving away at their jobs. If you're not happy, it's because you're a not mindlessly slaving away, producing taxable income for your government and profit for your employers.
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relyat08



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:10 pm Reply with quote
Greed1914 wrote:
Considering this came from the Japanese government, that probably is the overall idea they meant to convey.


Yep, and that's a really sad thing to see from the government. Like Tuor_of_Gondolin, I imagine this has at least a little to do with the greater taxable income that you would have working a "regular" job, compared to the very little at a part-time place.
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:14 pm Reply with quote
Greed1914 wrote:

Agreed. What it says about subsisting on part-time work isn't totally inaccurate, but the "solution" of becoming a salaryman/woman assumes everything falls into place, and also leaves out what those companies expect in return. It comes off a lot like being told that going to college is the key to a good job with plenty of income.


Yep, that's what my high school counselor, my parents, and my college counselor all told me. The way this video is summarized in the article makes it come across like that to me too.

relyat08 wrote:
Yep, and that's a really sad thing to see from the government. Like Tuor_of_Gondolin, I imagine this has at least a little to do with the greater taxable income that you would have working a "regular" job, compared to the very little at a part-time place.


There are also differences in culture. let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure in Japan, once you work for a stable company, odds are that's the company you're in for life (at least until the company goes out of business), and they'd rather demote people, reassign people, or kick them upstairs rather than firing them (and they are sometimes rehired shortly afterwards, like with Takeshi Iizuka at SEGA). Hence, the popular view of part-time and/or minimum wage work, I'm sure, must also be different. While you have the whole "Go to school or you'll be flipping burgers forever" mindset in the west (but I only see that among people who have never had to work those menial jobs), there are also a lot of people who view that sort of work as something to pay the bills, tuition, and loans until something better comes along. This video, on the other hand, suggests that people who work at 7-Eleven or fast food are going to be stuck there until the day they die.
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Clyde_Cash



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:13 pm Reply with quote
I blame Japan's alter kockers running the show for too long. I wouldn't mind if they took a lesson from Logan's Run for once. America damn well needs to do so, even if for similar but different reasons. They could stand to make the Carrousel real. The two R's are not a typo.
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relyat08



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:48 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:

There are also differences in culture. let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure in Japan, once you work for a stable company, odds are that's the company you're in for life (at least until the company goes out of business), and they'd rather demote people, reassign people, or kick them upstairs rather than firing them (and they are sometimes rehired shortly afterwards, like with Takeshi Iizuka at SEGA). Hence, the popular view of part-time and/or minimum wage work, I'm sure, must also be different. While you have the whole "Go to school or you'll be flipping burgers forever" mindset in the west (but I only see that among people who have never had to work those menial jobs), there are also a lot of people who view that sort of work as something to pay the bills, tuition, and loans until something better comes along. This video, on the other hand, suggests that people who work at 7-Eleven or fast food are going to be stuck there until the day they die.


That's an approach I hadn't considered. I've also, as you'd expect, heard and read the same things about Japan's work culture, salarymen, lifetime employment, etc. But I didn't think it may carry over to part-time work. It's definitely seen as a stepping stone, something temporary, an in-between gig, etc in the West, my impression of its view in Japan was that it was basically the same, but I could be wrong about that. I think, in general, there is more company loyalty in Japan, and people take responsibilities very seriously, so that carrying over to part-time work makes a lot of sense. I do think that the video suggesting they'll be there for years and years is meant mostly as a scare-tactic though. You could have the same thing happen pretty much anywhere I think.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:08 am Reply with quote
At least they are showing some concern about getting people into full-time work, even if it is in a misguided and tone-deaf kind of way. Here in Australia, more and more positions are being made part-time or casual against people's wills, and the government shows absolutely zero interest in getting more people into full-time work. Or in ensuring that those who have to live with part-time or casual work can make ends meet doing so.

leafy sea dragon wrote:
let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure in Japan, once you work for a stable company, odds are that's the company you're in for life (at least until the company goes out of business), and they'd rather demote people, reassign people, or kick them upstairs rather than firing them (and they are sometimes rehired shortly afterwards, like with Takeshi Iizuka at SEGA).

Kind of. From what I gather, working as a public servant is seen as desirable because even though the pay is lower than working for a company, it's basically absolute job security. If this is enough of a factor to be worth the lower pay to people, it suggests that job security working for companies isn't that great, even if it is better than in Western countries.
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NateSelwyn25



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:20 am Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
Mindless wage-slaves are only happy when mindlessly slaving away at their jobs. If you're not happy, it's because you're a not mindlessly slaving away, producing taxable income for your government and profit for your employers.


Throw in the traditional Japanese mindset of "conformity is the only way. Be different and society will shun you, your family will shun your, and your grandmother will commit seppuku"


BTW, really dig the Tolkien name. Tuor, father of Earendil, only Man to ever be counted among the Eldar after selling westward to Valinor.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:37 am Reply with quote
Tuor tips his hat to Nate, "Thanks. Nice catch."

And, on topic, I think the whole "job security for life" thing has mainly fallen by the wayside in Japan, except probably for government jobs. It may not be as prevalent as it is on the West, but even the biggest Japanese companies have had to lay people off in recent years. Plus, the overall economy of Japan has stayed flat for close to 20 years now.

But personally, I find the idea of having to shove your face to the floor every time your boss walks by, or go out drinking after-hours with them, or the whole "can't leave work before the boss" mentality, or several other similar things I've heard: I find the idea of living that way truly horrible and absolutely undesirable. Living life working part-time or non-salaryman jobs doesn't sound like the worst thing that could happen to a person. But that's just me.
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:46 am Reply with quote
relyat08 wrote:
That's an approach I hadn't considered. I've also, as you'd expect, heard and read the same things about Japan's work culture, salarymen, lifetime employment, etc. But I didn't think it may carry over to part-time work. It's definitely seen as a stepping stone, something temporary, an in-between gig, etc in the West, my impression of its view in Japan was that it was basically the same, but I could be wrong about that. I think, in general, there is more company loyalty in Japan, and people take responsibilities very seriously, so that carrying over to part-time work makes a lot of sense. I do think that the video suggesting they'll be there for years and years is meant mostly as a scare-tactic though. You could have the same thing happen pretty much anywhere I think.


That's how it comes across to me too, that the video's purpose is to scare viewers from taking the Goofus path. I DO hope that those kind of low-paying jobs get used as stepping stones or holdovers the way they are in western countries though, because personally, there is no shame in having that kind of job. You do have the occasional character in anime or manga working at a convenience store who's depicted as a washed up former celebrity or whatnot though. (In the video game Segagaga, for instance, Alex Kidd is shown to have been working minimum wage jobs ever since he was retired as a character.)

Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:
At least they are showing some concern about getting people into full-time work, even if it is in a misguided and tone-deaf kind of way. Here in Australia, more and more positions are being made part-time or casual against people's wills, and the government shows absolutely zero interest in getting more people into full-time work. Or in ensuring that those who have to live with part-time or casual work can make ends meet doing so.


What you described happened a few years ago in the United States too: As a response to the unemployment problem, a LOT of jobs that were full time before were made part time under the idea that more job openings would be available. Didn't seem to work as planned for mostof these companies though, if not all of them.

Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:
Kind of. From what I gather, working as a public servant is seen as desirable because even though the pay is lower than working for a company, it's basically absolute job security. If this is enough of a factor to be worth the lower pay to people, it suggests that job security working for companies isn't that great, even if it is better than in Western countries.


Interesting. So it's not like in the west, where those kinds of jobs are notorious for their low job security.
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relyat08



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:06 am Reply with quote
Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:

Kind of. From what I gather, working as a public servant is seen as desirable because even though the pay is lower than working for a company, it's basically absolute job security. If this is enough of a factor to be worth the lower pay to people, it suggests that job security working for companies isn't that great, even if it is better than in Western countries.


I've heard they typically have much better hours than your normal Salaryman job too though. Like, you actually get to work at 9am and go home at 5pm, get to have an evening meal with your family and even have a 2 day weekend. You know, maybe a little similar to how a "normal" job should be. Unlike your salaryman jobs that have people sleeping in office and not getting to go home for days at a time, or working from 8am to 10pm every day. My impression of government jobs is pretty much entirely based on anime like Servant x Service though, where they talk very favorably about getting a coveted public servant job, so it could be entirely wrong.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:18 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
What you described happened a few years ago in the United States too: As a response to the unemployment problem, a LOT of jobs that were full time before were made part time under the idea that more job openings would be available. Didn't seem to work as planned for mostof these companies though, if not all of them.

In theory it can work, but it kind of needs to be an economy-wide effort that also involves raising wages for part-timers, discouraging full-time work, and reducing executive and CEO salaries from massive to merely much larger than the common workers'. Unfortunately that last detail ensures it won't happen.
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