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The Mike Toole Show - Who's Lion Is It, Anyway?




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Slowzhand



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:13 pm Reply with quote
Great article!

(but it should be "Whose Lion Is It")
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FireChick



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 1513
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:53 pm Reply with quote
Eh, I always found the whole debacle to be kind of stupid, because even though they share the concepts of lions in Africa, their core themes are totally different. Kimba was more about the relationship between man and nature, and Lion King was basically just Hamlet but with fewer deaths.
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Primus



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2486
Location: Toronto
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:06 pm Reply with quote
I wasn't aware the '90s dub of the original Kimba series was effectively a bootleg. I've heard it was still airing on some really low budget TV stations within the decade.

I believe it might be the only non-union anime series recorded in Toronto. None of the actors have other voice credits. No one sounded like they were under a pseudonym and a bunch of them seem like real people. I have to wonder about Don Neilson.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8351
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:32 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Landmark Entertainment Group— yep, the Ceasar's Palace people, which is particularly hilarious to me for some reason, casino developers getting into the anime biz

Well, they also are responsible for Sanrio Puroland, which opened in Japan in 1990, so they were already at least anime-adjacent and dealing with the Japanese by the late 80s. So it's not quite as wildly out of their wheelhouse as it might seem.
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zawa113
Collector ExtraordinaireCollector Extraordinaire


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 7183
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:36 pm Reply with quote
Oh how I ADORE ripoffs so inexplicable and massive that they defy logic! Of COURSE Simba would be coaching animals to win the World Soccer Cup!

For me on Kimba vs Disney, I just wish they'd acknowledge the influences. I mean, the lion's already out of the bag on the legal stuff not going forward from any direction, is the "harm" from Disney's side that they'd have to admit it's not entirely an original or something? I mean, it's not like they've made tons of films based on public domain stories for eons as is, right?
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 2111
Location: San Antonio, USA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:34 pm Reply with quote
Maybe one way to resolve this is for Disney (Japan) to just outright buy Tezuka Pro/Mushi Pro and all the IP that goes with.
Tezuka's children have been okay caretakers but there isn't really a proper structure in place for the next generation...
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StudioToledo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Toledo, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:23 am Reply with quote
FireChick wrote:
Eh, I always found the whole debacle to be kind of stupid, because even though they share the concepts of lions in Africa, their core themes are totally different. Kimba was more about the relationship between man and nature, and Lion King was basically just Hamlet but with fewer deaths.

Sometimes I joke that Kimba really reminds me of Babar especially, both stores pretty much have the same themes though I suppose Babar is far more laid out than the road Kimba traveled.

zawa113 wrote:
Oh how I ADORE ripoffs so inexplicable and massive that they defy logic! Of COURSE Simba would be coaching animals to win the World Soccer Cup!

Not bad for what you can do with some Italian sleazeball producers and a team of North Korean animators. Seriously, anything!
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CandisWhite
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Joined: 19 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:30 am Reply with quote
Okay, sorry if I missed it but does anyone know what channel the original dub re-aired on in the 80's? Maybe even 1990? Because I have an episode of the classic Kimba dub on home-taped video, after an episode of Teddy Ruxpin (recorded at a different time). I'm Canadian so it could have come from either an American channel or a Canadian one. I'm really curious now since it wasn't a straightforward situation.
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grooven



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 1334
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:53 am Reply with quote
Thanks for this Mike Smile I'm happy to see some focus on Kimba/Leo. The whole information on the releases makes sense now and why I own so many odd VHS and DVD copies. I never looked into it!

I've been a huge Leo/Kimba fan since about 1997 ever since I found out about it on the net. I enjoyed the 1997 movie and think it's a great movie for Kimba/Leo fans, but it feels a bit too out of place for a non fan (but doesn't make it a bad movie) but the message is too amazing to overlook with that ending. However, I was disappointed with the 2009 special and hope they come out with something better some time soon. I'm sad they don't market Kimba enough in general like Totoro or studio Ghibli. I have to constantly go to to the Tezuka museum to buy merchandise or second hand.

Over the years I read anything I could about the whole debate reading everything from Hamlet to an African legend called The Lion King. What I can sum up from everything is there is no doubt in my mind they used imagery and designs. I know the stories are different, but I can't look past them not giving any credit. Which is why I fell out of love for Lion King years ago.

FireChick wrote:
Eh, I always found the whole debacle to be kind of stupid, because even though they share the concepts of lions in Africa, their core themes are totally different. Kimba was more about the relationship between man and nature, and Lion King was basically just Hamlet but with fewer deaths.
The point was that the designs are completely lifted. It's way too obvious so there is merit to the whole thing. The stories are drastically different but the the designs are too hard to ignore.

StudioToledo wrote:
Sometimes I joke that Kimba really reminds me of Babar especially, both stores pretty much have the same themes though I suppose Babar is far more laid out than the road Kimba traveled.
I often compared these two as well Smile They are very similar in terms of learning from humans and having a parent murdered by hunters.

CandisWhite wrote:
Okay, sorry if I missed it but does anyone know what channel the original dub re-aired on in the 80's? Maybe even 1990? Because I have an episode of the classic Kimba dub on home-taped video, after an episode of Teddy Ruxpin (recorded at a different time). I'm Canadian so it could have come from either an American channel or a Canadian one. I'm really curious now since it wasn't a straightforward situation.


Good question! I used to watch Speed Racer too. It must've been a basic tv channel. Perhaps CBC or even NBC?
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Chichiryuutei



Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 164
Location: Silicon Valley
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:51 am Reply with quote
Amazing read. Now, this is journalism.

The Lion King was the 1st movie I watched in theaters. It remains a beloved memory. But, growing up means learning things and 1 thing is for sure. Disney is a trash company.

Disney doesn't create anything but are magnificent at retelling other's people's creations. I saw Kimba in Japan. He's in buses (city near Hakone) and you could truly get the pride they have for the White Lion. Disney should apologize and give credit to Tezuka (and all creators not just Stan Lee).

The great irony is that Disney loves stealing... Retelling other people's stories but not allowing anyone to touch theirs.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 14426
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:20 am Reply with quote
BTW, still waiting, but at least you can get one chapter of ‘Leo the Lion Cub’ through Digital Manga’s site, emanga.com. https://www.animenation.net/blog/ask-john-has-lion-king-killed-our-chances-of-getting-the-jungle-emperor-manga/ Also, there was an old article I Googled where the Di$ney peeps admitted citing Nausicaa for TaleSpin. Dunno if it’s still around, though...And depending on how long Porco Rosso was in development, yes, The Mouse could have borrowed from it, too. Also, that ‘97 Leo movie was great and underappreciated. TezukaPro’s biggest budget for something you don’t see nowadays.
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TanyaTheEvil



Joined: 11 May 2018
Posts: 114
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:57 am Reply with quote
I remember watching Kimba the white lion in the early seventies. I use to love that show
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omiya



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 1481
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:00 am Reply with quote
Chichiryuutei wrote:
I saw Kimba in Japan. He's in buses (city near Hakone) and you could truly get the pride they have for the White Lion.


I see what you did there, a pride of Lion. Very Happy
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Sky Captain



Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:03 am Reply with quote
FireChick wrote:
Eh, I always found the whole debacle to be kind of stupid, because even though they share the concepts of lions in Africa, their core themes are totally different. Kimba was more about the relationship between man and nature, and Lion King was basically just Hamlet but with fewer deaths.


Exactly.
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Sky Captain



Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:16 am Reply with quote
CandisWhite wrote:
Okay, sorry if I missed it but does anyone know what channel the original dub re-aired on in the 80's? Maybe even 1990? Because I have an episode of the classic Kimba dub on home-taped video, after an episode of Teddy Ruxpin (recorded at a different time). I'm Canadian so it could have come from either an American channel or a Canadian one. I'm really curious now since it wasn't a straightforward situation.


Good question! I used to watch Speed Racer too. It must've been a basic TV channel. Perhaps CBC or even NBC?[/quote]

The original dub (I assume you mean the one made by Speed Racer Enterprises) never aired on CBC, but aired in Canada on YTV.

Directed by Hiroshi Sasagawa
Peter Fernandez (adaptation)
Produced by Tatsuo Yoshida
Peter Fernandez (adaptation)
Written by Jinzō Toriumi
Peter Fernandez (adaptation)
Music by Nobuyoshi Koshibe
Studio Tatsunoko Production
Licensed by
NA
Trans-Lux (originally)
Funimation (currently)
Original network Fuji TV
English network
AUS
ABC (1960s–1970s)
Network Ten (1990s)
NA
First-run syndication
CBS
MTV
Speed Channel
Cartoon Network (1996-2000)
UK
CBBC (2006-present) and Disney Anime hyper (2016-present)
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