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INTEREST: Shinichiro Watanabe Looks Back on Carole & Tuesday's Success




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Takizawa-Shinzou



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 93
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:18 pm Reply with quote
How do we gauge success of a show like this? Having concerts doesn't make it a success on its own. Netflix doesn't reveal data and even if they do its not reliable. A ton of people click random shows for "background noise". This anime was pushed to the front of Netflix for like a month so a lot of casual viewers could've used it for background noise or similar. That doesn't necessarily make it a "success". Sales numbers were not so high last I checked. Even the CDs didn't do too well. Meanwhile most feedback has been more negative than positive, particularly about the 2nd half of the show. On MAL for example the ratings dropped from above 8.6 down to around its current 8.0 after the 2nd half. Simply put, it was a letdown for a large percentage of people. Is it just a success because Netflix paid a lot upfront? No ad money of course. Netflix removed user reviews a few years ago so we have nothing to go on from Netflix's side.

How do you gauge success of a show like this? All I can imagine is Netflix saying to him "a lot of people watched this". But a lot of people watched Cats and The Emoji Movie so that metric is pointless. I doubt more than a handful, if any people subscribed to Netflix just to watch this show. If he means it's a "success" because it fulfilled his dream of having concerts, then it definitely was a success in that obviously.

I love the idea of spreading music but modern western music is largely not very good and there was honestly only like 3-5 songs in this show that were any good. They rest were super processed with annoying effects like autotune or sung in fake accents that a lot of singers think is clever for some reason. This show was essentially a letdown in every way from the 2nd half plot to the 2nd half's music. The beginning made me think to would be about two girls working hard to make their dreams come truespoiler[ but it ended up being two girls "winning" a TV competition and having extremely lucky connections to top tier artists, connections that got them most of what they wanted.]. Japanese streaming sites and YouTube prove he's wrong about Japanese people not listening to western music - a lot of western artists top those charts and trends.
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costmuffled



Joined: 28 Dec 2019
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:54 pm Reply with quote
I enjoyed the first cour of Carole & Tuesday. The first songs were very catchy...the better to rope you in. The show was at its best while concentrating on the development of Carole and Tuesday as musicians and showcasing their quirky life.

After that, the series got much more true to the Western-style music scene with its pointless politicking and niche philosophies. I can't say I enjoyed that much at all. It's too bad, really. The anime could have done so much better by exclusively focusing its energy on the first cour.
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SquadmemberRitsu



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1375
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:18 pm Reply with quote
Takizawa-Shinzou wrote:
How do we gauge success of a show like this? Having concerts doesn't make it a success on its own. Netflix doesn't reveal data and even if they do its not reliable.

I was at the concert he’s talking about. The fact that they’ve done 3 of them already should tell you enough about how successful they’ve been, but the place was totally packed and the audience was totally gender neutral in a way that a lot of anime franchises would kill to have.

Quote:
On MAL for example the ratings dropped from above 8.6 down to around its current 8.0 after the 2nd half. Simply put, it was a letdown for a large percentage of people.
MAL is not even a reasonable metric to measure western anime fans, let alone Japanese fans. Almost every human being I’ve talked to about the series vastly preferred the 2nd half. I don’t frequent the forums on titpuncher dot com so I’m not sure what those guys are saying about the show but it kinda doesn’t matter if the Japanese side are seeing it as a success.

Quote:
But a lot of people watched Cats
No one is calling Cats a success. It was a disaster by every metric. Even a whole month after coming out it’s probably still a cool $100 Million from breaking even when you consider the ridiculous amount of marketing. I don’t think any anime has failed that hard, if only because basically none of them cost hundreds of millions to get made.

I can’t believe I had to explain the box office metrics of Cats on an anime forum.
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Watanabefan



Joined: 02 Oct 2017
Posts: 97
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:50 pm Reply with quote
Loved the soundtrack to the show.
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Blue_Rain_87



Joined: 12 May 2016
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:02 pm Reply with quote
Takizawa-Shinzou wrote:
How do we gauge success of a show like this? Having concerts doesn't make it a success on its own. Netflix doesn't reveal data and even if they do its not reliable. A ton of people click random shows for "background noise". This anime was pushed to the front of Netflix for like a month so a lot of casual viewers could've used it for background noise or similar. That doesn't necessarily make it a "success". Sales numbers were not so high last I checked. Even the CDs didn't do too well. Meanwhile most feedback has been more negative than positive, particularly about the 2nd half of the show. On MAL for example the ratings dropped from above 8.6 down to around its current 8.0 after the 2nd half. Simply put, it was a letdown for a large percentage of people. Is it just a success because Netflix paid a lot upfront? No ad money of course. Netflix removed user reviews a few years ago so we have nothing to go on from Netflix's side.

How do you gauge success of a show like this? All I can imagine is Netflix saying to him "a lot of people watched this". But a lot of people watched Cats and The Emoji Movie so that metric is pointless. I doubt more than a handful, if any people subscribed to Netflix just to watch this show. If he means it's a "success" because it fulfilled his dream of having concerts, then it definitely was a success in that obviously.

I love the idea of spreading music but modern western music is largely not very good and there was honestly only like 3-5 songs in this show that were any good. They rest were super processed with annoying effects like autotune or sung in fake accents that a lot of singers think is clever for some reason. This show was essentially a letdown in every way from the 2nd half plot to the 2nd half's music. The beginning made me think to would be about two girls working hard to make their dreams come truespoiler[ but it ended up being two girls "winning" a TV competition and having extremely lucky connections to top tier artists, connections that got them most of what they wanted.]. Japanese streaming sites and YouTube prove he's wrong about Japanese people not listening to western music - a lot of western artists top those charts and trends.


Personally i love carole and Tuesday, i bought both vocal collections from japan and have seen the series 2 full times and nearly halfway through the 3rd. It in my opinion has the best soundtrack of any anime I've ever seen, I've seen a lot.

Also to add on, they didn't win, im assuming you used parentheses to imply they did by the way things went, but they turned down the contract in the end. I think a large point of the show is also the fact that no matter how "lucky" they are, they had to prove themselves at every stage.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3135
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:30 am Reply with quote
I suspect Watanabe is also referring to the songs referenced in the episode titles. All of them were released in the US or UK between 1963 and 1985 or so. I strung them all together in a playlist at YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPn0KFlbqX8&list=PLNscpuY0iDhO5MKj_IO_L-DcIGG0LojBS
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Lann



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Brighton UK
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:13 am Reply with quote
Not to sound like an advertiser, but the music soundtracks, including singles, are available on ITunes worldwide. 100% recommended.
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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 285
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:41 am Reply with quote
Takizawa-Shinzou wrote:
How do we gauge success of a show like this? Having concerts doesn't make it a success on its own. Netflix doesn't reveal data and even if they do its not reliable. A ton of people click random shows for "background noise". This anime was pushed to the front of Netflix for like a month so a lot of casual viewers could've used it for background noise or similar. That doesn't necessarily make it a "success". Sales numbers were not so high last I checked. Even the CDs didn't do too well. Meanwhile most feedback has been more negative than positive, particularly about the 2nd half of the show. On MAL for example the ratings dropped from above 8.6 down to around its current 8.0 after the 2nd half. Simply put, it was a letdown for a large percentage of people. Is it just a success because Netflix paid a lot upfront? No ad money of course. Netflix removed user reviews a few years ago so we have nothing to go on from Netflix's side.

How do you gauge success of a show like this? All I can imagine is Netflix saying to him "a lot of people watched this". But a lot of people watched Cats and The Emoji Movie so that metric is pointless. I doubt more than a handful, if any people subscribed to Netflix just to watch this show. If he means it's a "success" because it fulfilled his dream of having concerts, then it definitely was a success in that obviously.

I love the idea of spreading music but modern western music is largely not very good and there was honestly only like 3-5 songs in this show that were any good. They rest were super processed with annoying effects like autotune or sung in fake accents that a lot of singers think is clever for some reason. This show was essentially a letdown in every way from the 2nd half plot to the 2nd half's music. The beginning made me think to would be about two girls working hard to make their dreams come truespoiler[ but it ended up being two girls "winning" a TV competition and having extremely lucky connections to top tier artists, connections that got them most of what they wanted.]. Japanese streaming sites and YouTube prove he's wrong about Japanese people not listening to western music - a lot of western artists top those charts and trends.


I think you're taking the title a bit too literal. It seemed obvious to me there's not saying actual, like, sales or popularity success. Just that it finished production and aired and is a thing that exists.

As for foreign artists in Japan, there's certainly popular ones, but they're mostly Korean, Taiwanese, and other Asian singers like BTS and TWICE. Presumably Watanabe means western as in American and European, and those certainly exist in Japan too and you can find concerts for them, but a lot of the truly big, influential western artists in Japan are from a a previous era. Queen, Madonna, Michael Jackson, Mariah Carey. Western music was so much bigger in Japan back before the 90s, which is what Watanabe grew up in and is referring to. There's certainly still popular western artists with fanbases like Taylor Swift in Japan, but they're not to the level the previous generations were and are mostly drown out by domestic and other Asian artists these days. Looking at the weekly Oricon charts every week, it's Japanese, Korean, or Taiwan bands. The most popular foreign band in 2019 was Queen.

Personally I don't see that as an issue at all. Japan liking mostly Japanese music is perfectly fine. But we know Watanabe is a huge westaboo so it probably irks him that western stuff isn't seen as cool anymore like it was in his day. I'm not too surprised Carole & Tuesday was just a way for him to try to get Japanese people into western music more, but I don't think the music he chose for it is going to resonate all that well with the Japanese. Y'know I've seen people say the same thing about anime too. How in the 80s and 90s anime was more westernized and took more from American pop culture and how anime these days feels 'too Japanese' or 'insular'. Japan's entertainment market wasn't the strongest after WWII and a lot of western media was consumed up until the 90s, but these days they have their own healthy industries and don't really need to rely on foreign media as much anymore.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 2269
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:36 pm Reply with quote
Why do some people really hate Carole & Tuesday anyway? I didn’t think it was Watanabe’s best work but I still thought it had a creative world with engaging characters and beautiful animation and catchy music with themes that I felt were relevant to modern society. Maybe the overall plot was a little too simple and cliched at times but there’s a lot worse anime out there but people get really angry about this show.
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Alestal



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 564
Location: Dallas, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:58 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Quote:
But a lot of people watched Cats
No one is calling Cats a success. It was a disaster by every metric. Even a whole month after coming out it’s probably still a cool $100 Million from breaking even when you consider the ridiculous amount of marketing. I don’t think any anime has failed that hard, if only because basically none of them cost hundreds of millions to get made.

I can’t believe I had to explain the box office metrics of Cats on an anime forum.


This is hilarious. Laughing
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3135
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:24 pm Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
Why do some people really hate Carole & Tuesday anyway? I didn’t think it was Watanabe’s best work but I still thought it had a creative world with engaging characters and beautiful animation and catchy music with themes that I felt were relevant to modern society. Maybe the overall plot was a little too simple and cliched at times but there’s a lot worse anime out there but people get really angry about this show.

I think maybe dashed expectations played a role. Once the show aired, it wasn't as remarkable as expected, and fans were disappointed. After all, this was Watanabe's first TV show in five years since Terror in Resonance (2014). (He did make that Blade Runner short in 2017.)
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El Hermano



Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 185
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:30 pm Reply with quote
I would guess a lot of Watanabe's western fanbase like him for Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo, so they get disappointed when he makes stuff that isn't action focused.
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Axbox360



Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:13 am Reply with quote
Takizawa-Shinzou wrote:
. Meanwhile most feedback has been more negative than positive, particularly about the 2nd half of the show. On MAL for example the ratings dropped from above 8.6 down to around its current 8.0 after the 2nd half. Simply put, it was a letdown for a large percentage of people


MAL is a joke. Do you really take that website seriously when Something like Ishuzoku Reviewers has a 9.20 score.

MAL is Irrelevant. Rolling Eyes
[img] https://i.imgur.com/nvL5VAl_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium[/img]
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 2269
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:34 am Reply with quote
El Hermano wrote:
I would guess a lot of Watanabe's western fanbase like him for Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo, so they get disappointed when he makes stuff that isn't action focused.
They should probably watch Kids on the Slope.
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