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Now and Then, Here and There Wants to Break You


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cookiemanstah



Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 352
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:12 pm Reply with quote
This used to be an anime I held on the highest pedestal until Daichi's crimes came to light very recently. After that, I was just completely crushed and could never see it the same way again.

I don't really know whether that is supposed to bust the mood as a note for some vigilant moderators here. But it's worth considering the nature of what Daichi had done in relation to some of the problems presented in this show's narrative and it being OT.
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Stampeed Valkyrie



Joined: 10 Aug 2014
Posts: 717
Location: PA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:41 pm Reply with quote
This is still a great series, I was introduced to this back in college and have since then referred many fans to this title. Unfortunately more and more fans are unfamiliar with this title, but definitely worth the watch.
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Thespacemaster



Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 692
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:51 pm Reply with quote
cookiemanstah wrote:
This used to be an anime I held on the highest pedestal until Daichi's crimes came to light very recently. After that, I was just completely crushed and could never see it the same way again.

I don't really know whether that is supposed to bust the mood as a note for some vigilant moderators here. But it's worth considering the nature of what Daichi had done in relation to some of the problems presented in this show's narrative and it being OT.


He was only the Director of the show, many other people worked on this to make a good piece of media with a clear message dont let the actions of one guy ruin it for you.

Regardless, this a series that can definitely break you, more so cause unlike most other titles especially these days that try to hard to mess with you like with all the gore and sex and violence and etc this series feels more grounded and more realistic. I only recently watched it less than a year ago and it is amazing how this series has stayed so much under the radar for so long.

Well i guess part of the main reason why is that so far there is no legal streaming available for it and as said in the video the series has been out of print for over a decade now and it definitely needs to be re-licensed and more people should give it a try,
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8014
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:26 pm Reply with quote
As I said in my own review video a while back, NTHT comes very close to being what I refer to as "tragedy porn", or a melodrama that cheap shots you to wring as many tears as possible from you. Much in the same vein as, say, Rumbling Hearts. But while it does veer close, it does have enough genuinely well-written plotting and characterization to avoid some of the patronizing pitfalls of tragedy porn.

My only real problem is that Shu's moralizing optimism wears a little thin in certain situations, even if (or maybe especially because) in the end he's written to be in the right. His hopeless optimism is even entirely inappropriate at times, to where I just wanted to slug him in the face for being a Pollyanna when it wasn't called for.

Otherwise, while you know you're being manipulated (the same can be said of all fiction, though), it's easy to find the show to be legitimately compelling. I think the best dynamic in the series is, rather than between Shu and Lala Ru, actually the threesome of Nabuca, Tabool, and Boo (my favorite characters), and how they embody the use of child soldiers in war, and how they're both victims and victimizers.

In this, as Matthew eludes to in this video, Shu is more of a catalyst, a vehicle, than a fully formed character in himself, activating the drama between characters with his outlook in life and strong moral backbone. The more realistic characters develop as they react to his views.

NTHT is really a classic overall. I wish it would get a Blu-Ray release, because it's one of my favorites, and I'd definitely double-dip.

Anyway, great video.
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Barciad



Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 115
Location: St Andrews
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:42 pm Reply with quote
Though currently residing at 4th in my top 10 anime series of all time. I will be more than happy if I never have to go through it again. Not just a series who's reputation proceeds it. But is one that quite easily lives up to it.
It is a masterclass in how to do drama properly. Pacing, characterisation, and perhaps better than any other series out there in the art of the 'implied act'. All too many series (animated or otherwise) seek to shock you with deceptions of sex or extreme violence. NATHAT knows better than that. Best to leave it up to the imagination. Since after all, that can create greater and more intense terrors than even the most creative of directors.
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Takkun4343



Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 1035
Location: Gahanna, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:03 pm Reply with quote
All I'll say is, watching this on SyFy alongside Gurren Lagann really helped soften the blows.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4595
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:10 pm Reply with quote
cookiemanstah wrote:
But it's worth considering the nature of what Daichi had done in relation to some of the problems presented in this show's narrative and it being OT.


Not really. The man directed 22 anime shows. Are we going to tear them all apart to find hidden evil messages in them. It would be much more interesting to tear the writer apart, than the director. This is just my personal opinion. I am sure there are others who think you are correct too and would love to do that dissection.

I only watched this show once. I know I watched it legally, just can't remember how and where I watched it.

Yes it is a depressing show, but it is realistic to human behavior. As if we need more examples of inhuman human behavior, we got those Myanmar soldiers testifying to their own actions, those of their fellow soldiers, and of their superiors in the Rohingya genocide recently at the war crimes tribunal. What they did to the women and children before killing them was beyond the pale.

Still I liked this show, will need to see it again, just to remember everything about it again.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4595
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:23 pm Reply with quote
Takkun4343 wrote:
All I'll say is, watching this on SyFy alongside Gurren Lagann really helped soften the blows.


Thanks, now I remember how I watched it.
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
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Joined: 14 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:29 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:

My only real problem is that Shu's moralizing optimism wears a little thin in certain situations, even if (or maybe especially because) in the end he's written to be in the right. His hopeless optimism is even entirely inappropriate at times, to where I just wanted to slug him in the face for being a Pollyanna when it wasn't called for.


So much this. I admit I didn't watch those videos, but I will opine nevertheless: dislike the last about three episodes for its very ill-fitted moralizing, especially grating when it's spoiler[guilting teen kidnapped rape victim into renouncing abortion and then makes her stay with all kids while the hero just goes back home happily] but that's not the only problematic part of the ending spoiler[the rebel leader guy was also treated worse then I've hoped]. Sara was great character in the first half, and perhaps only one of her archetype I've seen done so well, which makes the ending even more annoying.
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MysticGon



Joined: 29 May 2020
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:56 pm Reply with quote
I'm glad someone took the time to review this masterpiece.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8111
Location: IL
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:01 pm Reply with quote
a_Bear_in_Bearcave wrote:
penguintruth wrote:

My only real problem is that Shu's moralizing optimism wears a little thin in certain situations, even if (or maybe especially because) in the end he's written to be in the right. His hopeless optimism is even entirely inappropriate at times, to where I just wanted to slug him in the face for being a Pollyanna when it wasn't called for.


So much this. I admit I didn't watch those videos, but I will opine nevertheless: dislike the last about three episodes for its very ill-fitted moralizing, especially grating when it's spoiler[guilting teen kidnapped rape victim into renouncing abortion and then makes her stay with all kids while the hero just goes back home happily] but that's not the only problematic part of the ending spoiler[the rebel leader guy was also treated worse then I've hoped]. Sara was great character in the first half, and perhaps only one of her archetype I've seen done so well, which makes the ending even more annoying.

I'm curious as to why you think taking Sis' place and rearing up all those kids (plus who knows how many others will be needed to be taken care of post-Hellywood-collapse) is somehow a poor conclusion for Sara. Did you not notice how she was able to open herself so much more in the second half? Is that why you thought her character was so much better in the first half?
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 16313
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:52 pm Reply with quote
MysticGon wrote:
I'm glad someone took the time to review this masterpiece.

Ahem.

I don't normally watch theses kind of video analyses, as I find the comedy asides annoying when used on a tittle so dreadfully serious as this one is (though I must admit to chuckling as the "Sis = Fremen" comparison). However, but this was a favorite analysis target of mine back in the day so I was curious to compare notes on the series.

I agree with about 90% of Matthew's interpretations. My biggest point of disagreement is with his comments about the English dub. Though I agree that that original Japanese voice work was great, the English dub was plenty solid enough and Jack Taylor's rendition of Hamdo was as fantastic as Koji Ishi's original performance; to this day, when I think about the defining (English) anime portrayal of a character descending into mania but without going cartoonishly over-the-top, I think of that performance.

I also only partially agree with the analysis of Shu's role in the series. I have personally described Shu as being almost pathological in his optimism, but I also felt that this was absolutely essential for a point Matthew only vaguely touches on: keeping the story from being too oppressive. Shu's hope is not always borne out, and sometimes I didn't agree with it, but so much goes so bad here that something like that needs to exist as a counterbalance or the story will collapse under its own weight. He's also the story's moral center in a setting where morality flew out the window a long time ago.

The one other observation that I think is missing is about the closer. "Lullaby. . ." is exactly the kind of low-key, soothing number needed to calm viewers down after the emotional intensity of the content that they have witnessed. 15 years ago I proclaimed it to be one of the most fitting closers I've ever seen on an anime title, and my opinion on that hasn't changed over the years since.

15 years also hasn't changed my opinion on NTHT being one of the most emotionally potent anime titles I've ever seen. It is a devastating look about how humans respond to trauma and asks difficult questions to the viewer, questions which don't have clear answers. It's not a title that I would regularly rewatch, but it's absolutely worth seeing, and would be one of my top picks for older titles which need to be picked up by streaming services. Its content is still every bit as relevant today as it was 20 years.
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jsevakis
ANN Director of New Media


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1679
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:53 pm Reply with quote
The Daichi quote about it being inspired by seeing Rwanda footage came from an interview that was on a Big Apple Anime Fest program guide DVD, so it's not surprising that nobody had it. I should rip it and put it up on YouTube sometime.
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KaidoYuji8Shinji



Joined: 15 Mar 2016
Posts: 5
Location: Manchester, NH
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:05 pm Reply with quote
I still have the original DVDs from Central Park Media. I would kill to get a remaster and re release! Was this ever remastered in Japan?
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1815
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:30 pm Reply with quote
KaidoYuji8Shinji wrote:
I still have the original DVDs from Central Park Media. I would kill to get a remaster and re release! Was this ever remastered in Japan?


Quick check over at Amazon Japan shows nothing beyond the old DVD release, and even the Amazon Prime Japan streaming option is SD only, so I'd guess that the answer would be "No".
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