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NEWS: Life Lessons with Uramichi-Oniisan Anime Highlights Iketeru Daga in New Video




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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1006
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:14 am Reply with quote
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Yūichi Nakamura as Uramichi's subordinate Mitsuo Kumagai

His name is still Kumatani.

(By the way, I wonder if they're going to switch the name order in the subtitles. I suppose it doesn't matter if someone doesn't know Japanese, but it's so jarring to see the names make no sense.)
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shosakukan



Joined: 09 Jan 2014
Posts: 269
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:00 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
(By the way, I wonder if they're going to switch the name order in the subtitles. I suppose it doesn't matter if someone doesn't know Japanese, but it's so jarring to see the names make no sense.)

Speaking of name order, whilst the name of Ide Kumiko, who was born in Taishō 11 (1922) was written as 'Kumiko Ide' in an ANN article, the name of Tokugawa Yoshihisa, who was born in Meiji 17 (1884) was written as 'Tokugawa Yoshihisa' in the same ANN article. The name of Kindaichi Kyōsuke, who was born in Meiji 15 (1882), was written as 'Kyōsuke Kindaichi' in another ANN article.
I wonder whether Anime News Network has a manual-of-style-like coherent rule name order-wise about writing the names of Japanese persons who were, say, born in the Meiji period in its articles.

In a chapter of the Doraemon manga by Fujiko F. Fujio, a boy who likes to save money appears, and his comedic name is Kaneo Tameru, which is a wordplay on 'kane o tameru' (to save money).
The title of the chapter 'Zeikin-tori' (tax-collecting bird) itself is a wordplay on 'zeikin-tori' (a colloquial expression which means 'tax collector').
If the boy's name is written as 'Tameru Kaneo' in Occidental translations, the comedic efficacy of his name may lessen.
Wait, if the Doraemon manga is translated into Hungarian and a Magyar person reads the chapter in Fudzsiko F. Fudzsio's Doraemon manga, maybe he/she can appreciate the funniness of the name 'Kaneo Tameru' well, to borrow the words of Robert Warshow, as immediate experience, on the condition that he/she knows the meanings of the Japanese words 'kane, o, tameru,' though.
Also the funniness of the name 'Kaneo Tameru' is generated by its verging upon realistic Japanese names.
I have seen musicologist Professor Yokoi Masako write the name of a composer as 'Bartók Béla' even in an article aimed at Japanese laymen of Central European things.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1006
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:47 am Reply with quote
shosakukan wrote:
Wait, if the Doraemon manga is translated into Hungarian and a Magyar person reads the chapter in Fudzsiko F. Fudzsio's Doraemon manga, maybe he/she can appreciate the funniness of the name 'Kaneo Tameru' well, to borrow the words of Robert Warshow, as immediate experience, on the condition that he/she knows the meanings of the Japanese words 'kane, o, tameru,' though.
Also the funniness of the name 'Kaneo Tameru' is generated by its verging upon realistic Japanese names.
I have seen musicologist Professor Yokoi Masako write the name of a composer as 'Bartók Béla' even in an article aimed at Japanese laymen of Central European things.

Haha, my first language is Hungarian, and yes, the name order is a very convenient similarity between the two languages - as is the pronunciation, the two languages have a fairly similar sound set. (Although even I'm aware of my accent, much more than in English, then again my English is much better.) That said, in Hungary there's a general ignorance about Japanese culture in general, and so there's a bit of a chaos regarding name order. Many people don't know that Japanese name order is the same as ours, and so in texts taken from Western sources the translator/writer may or may not switch the name order; as even if they're aware of the order they may not dare switch because they don't recognize which is the surname and which is the given name... it's fairly chaotic. Texts from Asian sources are usually handled better though, because there the people involved are usually much better educated on the topic.

Incidentally, I have a friend named Anikó, and in online communication she's often mistaken for Japanese when she leaves off the acute from the "ó". Which is pretty funny, considering how strange the name would be in Japanese... 兄子?
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shosakukan



Joined: 09 Jan 2014
Posts: 269
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:10 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
Many people don't know that Japanese name order is the same as ours,

Oh, I thought that, since Professor Baráthosi Balogh Benedek and Mr Imaoka Jūichirō had said to Magyar people, 'Magyar people and Japanese people have the same name order' approx. 100 years before, every Magyar person knew it. (Just kidding.)
Since gróf Széchenyi Bálint was a friend of Imaoka's, probably his Lordship knew that Magyar people and Japanese people had the same name order.

SHD wrote:
... it's fairly chaotic.

Thank you for the input.
So things seem to be not necessarily so easy, and to have Magyar people understand the funniness of 'Kaneo Tameru' seems to be more difficult than I expected. ^_^;
The funniness of the 'Zeikin-tori' chapter is also created by the Zeikin-tori robot's speaking officialese.

SHD wrote:
Incidentally, I have a friend named Anikó, and in online communication she's often mistaken for Japanese when she leaves off the acute from the "ó". Which is pretty funny, considering how strange the name would be in Japanese... 兄子?

Oh, it is rather understandable that people think your friend is a Japanese when they see the name 'Aniko' on screens.
And the 'Ani-' part of the name may remind people of anime, which is a Japanese thing.
In the Imperial Court in Japan in the Nara period, there was a court physician whose name was 雀部兄子 Sazakibe no Aniko. 雀部兄子 was a male doctor, though.
『國司補任』 says:
Quote:
神護景雲三年
雀部兄子 八月十九日任內藥正

As you know, the 'kanji plus the 子 suffix' style had been applied mainly to male names in ancient times in Japan. But later it came to be applied to female names more.
In fact, a list of names of courtiers of the Imperial Court in the early 19th century has a court lady whose name was 兄子. (The correct way to read the name '兄子' of the court lady in question was 'Sakiko', though.)
So I would not be that surprised if I see a Japanese woman whose given name is 兄子 Aniko in modern-day Japan. It sounds archaic, however.
Also I would not be that surprised if the name of the heroine of 'The Lady who Loved Insects/The Lady Who Admired Vermin' in The Riverside Counsellor's Stories were 昆子 Aniko.
As you may know, 'The Lady who Loved Insects' is a story which inspired Miyazaki Hayao when he wrote and illustrated the Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind manga.

By the way, thanks to/owing to TV Tokyo's Who Wants to Come to Japan? programme, 鐵ヲタ László-san might be now one of the most famous Magyars in Japan.
In the TV programme, one of the guys who were playing chess at the Széchenyi Medicinal Bath said, 'Kobajasi Kenicsiró,' in the family name first order. He might be a member of the intelligentsia. ^_^;
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